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oil pan accumulator?

Jess Luvs 2Romp

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
322
Loc.
Montara, CA
Someone told me something along the lines that while going down (or was it up?) a very steep hill, our older broncos would basically run the engine with no oil. is this at all true? Should i blow $200 on another part? :'(

thx, Jess
 

74bronc

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 28, 2001
Messages
3,736
I wouldn't blow more money on an unneeded part. If this were true, you would see all sorts of EB's broken down due to oil pressure related problems. I have never seen this. If the design of the oil pan/engine were bad, we would lose oil pressure on steep hills. That simply doesn't happen, at least in my experience, both on road and off. Spend your money on something else.
 

wildbill

Old Bronco Guy
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
6,885
:p :p :p When going down it wont get as much oil but to lose all you would be going straight down and I dont think anthing would help. Other than a dry sump just drive it and have fun.;D ;D ;D Bill :cool: %) :p
 

Broncitis

MEB Founder
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
5,267
While we're on a thread about oil starvation...


Some friends and I have debated the use of a dry sump system in some competition rock crawler Broncos and buggies. Another friend of mine runs one in his 410 Sprint car (Chevy based motor design).

I know they are pricey, and that Ford units are likely harder to find used and more expensive. Does anyone here have experiance with them? Your thoughts on using them in this application? Advantages, disadvatages?

Without too much research into them here's some of my thoughts:

CON: The pump sticks out pretty far and may not work well in a stock belt drive and engine fan appliocation (or radiator location, the Sprint has no fan at all).

PRO: The pan would be very tight to the motor (no large rear or dual sump needed) which would allow for better driveshaft and diff clearane on portal axle, high pinion diffs and Four link suspension upper links.

CON: Cost....but doesn't everyting?

PRO: It's cool an it would definatly be differnt, plus Chicks dig all the shiney red and blue anodized fittings and cool blue oil lines!

CON: It's another non-standard part that the local Autozone can't support, but then again, these would not be on daily drivers.

With EFI and a dry sump, I thought that you could likely be on your side or at a very extreme angle for an extended time.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,125
accumulators are great for momentary losses in oil pressure. A sudden turn at high RPM where the pump catches a quick gulp of air. The last time I saw an accumulator fired off was with the engine off with cold oil and it only lasted 10 or 15 seconds. with the engine running and warm oil, I am sure it would dump even faster. I don't remember what size the accumulator was.

The big benifit of an accumulator is on high RPM conditions where a lack of oil pressure welds the bearing to the journel snapping off the rod, spitting parts all over the bottom of the engine

As far as even being a problem, it would only occur if you are real steep nose down or on your side. If you are on your side, you are not going to be able to get back up in a couple of seconds.

Generally you are not doing 6000+ RPM driving up a hill in reverse. If this is a common thing for you, then you may want to consider a dry sump.

as for dry sump, there are 2 basic ways to drive one. Standard and sprint car style. Standard uses a cogged belt and runs like another accessory on the engine. Don't want to loose that belt. Can't get it at the local NAPA. Sprint car is direct drive off the cam on the front of the motor. Adds about a foot to the engine and where do you put the water pump? Those sprint car waterpumps are not designed for good flow at idle, just low drag at high RPM. There is another rare type that drives off the back of the engine on the bellhousing, but that is not praticle to even consider since you need to run a direct drive (no clutch) or similer. The dry sump systems require several stages (pumps) to be effective. General suction areas include the front of the pan, back of the pan, and valve covers. For a Bronco application, you would need several valve cover suctions. Suction lines do not take being T'd very well. For an example, take 2 straws and put one in a glass of water and leave the other in the air. Try sucking on both at the same time. You just get air. So you will need a 7 stage pump to make a bronco have oil pressure all the time. 1 port at each corner of the valve covers = 4. 2 ports on the pan. And 1 port to send oil back to the engine. For an oil tank, you should be looking for aircraft because the car ones still don't like to be upside down.

With all that, I do have a good place for an accumulator. Start up pre lube. Besides, most engines are quit tollerent running a short time with minimal or no oil pressure. Since the rear sump pan goes dry pointing down hill, you usually just idling anyway, not working the engine.

What ever you do, do NOT turn off the engine and coast down a steep hill. The engine needs to be there to slow you down. All the parts are still wet and covered with oil for a while after you shut off the engine, or the pump sucks air. There is still some lube for a while even without pressure.

Is that enough ranting?
 

bsaunder

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
1,064
I've seen my oil pressure guage go to 0 several times in Moab and general wheeling around home - and no it wasn't on any insane line etc - usually it is on a downhill decent (not just a ledge) and the oil pressure slowly goes down till your at zero before you reach the bottom, 15 sec of extra oil would make a lot of difference in those situations. I heard of several people worried since they saw zero oil pressure several times this year in Moab during the B.R.O.N.CO. safari.

For this reason (and pre-lubing) I am putting an accumulator on my new engine (too much $$ tied up to risk losing it to low pressure). If where you wheel you never see steep downhills, then I wouln't worry.

For competition use, I'd dry sump my auto tranny and then maybe my engine; a windage tray and an acculumator may be all that is needed on the engine.
 

mtkawboy

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Messages
1,525
Loc.
Billings Mt
Put a one way hinged door in the pan like they do on ford drag cars. Heck of a lot cheaper if you make it yourself. They sell pans with them in them but I dont know if they fit Broncos
 
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