Painless 28 circut Bronco harness with Holley Sniper questions.

[Stutsmo]

EDIT:

JUMP TO POST NUMBER 12 IF YOU HAVE A PAINLESS HARNESS AND ARE INSTALLING A HOLLEY SNIPER, HYPERSPARK IGNITION AND A 4G ALTERNATOR ALL AT ONCE AND ARE JUST LOOKING TO SEE HOW SOMEONE ELSE DID IT.





I am getting ready to install the Holley Sniper with the hyper spark distributor. I am installing it on a fresh 351W. I usually try to shift through threads ( and I have done some looking for this question) but I have been so busy hammering out other upgrades I just dont have the hours it takes to do that.
My goal is to have my Bronco at the Super Cel on April 20 and I am running out of time. I am about a week from being able to start the actual install because I am working on the Explorer serp system and the 23 efi tank install.

I have briefly read through the quick set up sheet for the sniper. Looking ahead I am hoping those of you that have done this specific upgrade might be able to answer some questions and save me some time. I only have about 2 hours a week night to work on it and I'll probably only have about two days on the weekends leading up to April 20.

I am currently not able to power up my harness. Would some one know what circuit I should use for the keyed power? I dont have any of the extra circuits used for anything. The Sniper needs to have switched power while cranking. That is my real question... Do any or all the switched extra circuits have power while cranking on the key? Any help is appreciated. This is just the first of many questions I am going to have.!

 

[DirtDonk]

With a factory switch, only one terminal has power in ON/START and that one has two wires (at least from the factory) with one going to the ignition components and the other going to the alternator voltage regulator. Later Broncos might have had additional circuits added, but still only the single terminal on the switch.
So for your needs, find out which Painless wires are powered from that. In other words, any ignition-related wires and the old one for the voltage regulator which you may, or may not still be using?
You said Explorer serp, so I'm assuming that means you're using an Explorer internally regulated 4G alternator. Correct?
If so and it's a standard alternator, you'll still want the Green w/red wire for the alternator. But you can tap into that one for your Sniper, or find another one (probably of several) that Painless includes in their system that has power from the same source.
You can always test them too, but it sounds like you're not ready to connect the battery. You can still use an ohm-meter however, to find out which wires have continuity between the end of the wire and the other end at the switch, both in ON and START.

I think when Eric was there at Painless and would chime in here now and then, he did join in a conversation about just this subject. In it I think he pointed out that several of the switched wires were hot in ON and START. But I don't remember which ones or how many.
But you're pretty safe in using an ignition or regulator circuit as long as whatever you're connecting does not use too much current. That might disrupt the workings of the other components.
I'm guessing here, but probably the Sniper's switched circuit is probably ok to add. Is this just a sensing circuit? Or is it there to power up the entire Sniper system? If so you should power it up through a relay and just let the wire trigger the relay.
That way there is no question that there won't be too much load on the existing circuit.

Sorry to be so vague. I'm just not 100% certain about any of the other wires. I know a lot of members are using the sniper however, so hopefully someone will chime in with their direct experiences.

Paul

 

[Stutsmo]

With a factory switch, only one terminal has power in ON/START and that one has two wires (at least from the factory) with one going to the ignition components and the other going to the alternator voltage regulator. Later Broncos might have had additional circuits added, but still only the single terminal on the switch.
So for your needs, find out which Painless wires are powered from that. In other words, any ignition-related wires and the old one for the voltage regulator which you may, or may not still be using?

Good idea, I was hoping to keep it on one of the not used circuits but if i cant do that i'll look into using to old one for the voltage regulator.

You said Explorer serp, so I'm assuming that means you're using an Explorer internally regulated 4G alternator. Correct?

Yes I actually started hooking up the alternator tonight. I found a thread that was helpfull with doing that but couldnt get it completed in one evening.

If so and it's a standard alternator, you'll still want the Green w/red wire for the alternator. But you can tap into that one for your Sniper, or find another one (probably of several) that Painless includes in their system that has power from the same source.
You can always test them too, but it sounds like you're not ready to connect the battery. You can still use an ohm-meter however, to find out which wires have continuity between the end of the wire and the other end at the switch, both in ON and START.

I think when Eric was there at Painless and would chime in here now and then, he did join in a conversation about just this subject. In it I think he pointed out that several of the switched wires were hot in ON and START. But I don't remember which ones or how many.
But you're pretty safe in using an ignition or regulator circuit as long as whatever you're connecting does not use too much current. That might disrupt the workings of the other components.
I'm guessing here, but probably the Sniper's switched circuit is probably ok to add. Is this just a sensing circuit?

I believe it is a sensing circuit because the main power comes strait from the Battery.

Or is it there to power up the entire Sniper system? If so you should power it up through a relay and just let the wire trigger the relay.
That way there is no question that there won't be too much load on the existing circuit.

Sorry to be so vague. I'm just not 100% certain about any of the other wires. I know a lot of members are using the sniper however, so hopefully someone will chime in with their direct experiences.

Paul

Thanks for your input Paul.

 

[DirtDonk]

I believe it is a sensing circuit because the main power comes strait from the Battery.

There will be three wires that you hook up to the alternator.
The Yellow with white stripe wire on the alternator plug goes to the yellow from the painless harness. That is your sensing wire and has battery voltage all the time.

The Green with red stripe wire is the switched power wire. Has 12v with the key ON only.

The main battery output wire is the large stud on the alternator that feeds the battery.

 

[DirtDonk]

It does have a crank and start power terminal as I mentioned above. The ignition switch supplies it.
The voltage regulator runs off the same circuit from the switch. It does not have a connection to the starter relay, but still benefits from power while cranking.

The additional power coming from the starter relay while cranking is just that. Supplemental 12 V to bypass the resistor wire between the ignition switch and ignition coil. That’s all.
It’s not there to get power to the coil during crank alone (although it does that if the switch ever fails), because the ignition switch does supply that. Just at a lower voltage once the resistor wire is warmed up.
The Painless harness does not have a resistor wire though, so that restriction is out of the picture.
If running the correct ignition components you do not need a resistor or the brown wire from the starter relay.
Sufficient power is supplied by the switch.

 

[Stutsmo]

There will be three wires that you hook up to the alternator.
The Yellow with white stripe wire on the alternator plug goes to the yellow from the painless harness. That is your sensing wire and has battery voltage all the time.

The Green with red stripe wire is the switched power wire. Has 12v with the key ON only.

The main battery output wire is the large stud on the alternator that feeds the battery.

I read through an old thread and followed Eric's comments on this post. But for whatever reason his comments wont show up here.

Here is the official answer to run a 4G with a painless harness from their tech guys and it sounds right to me:

901 is not needed, remove and discard.

Yellow no number wire off external regulator not needed but hot when on, so needs to be sealed off.

connect this wire to the yellow/white wire off alternator plug. This is a battery power source for the voltage regulator. This will give the alternator a better sense of the amperage demands of the system instead of just connecting to the output stud where it is only sensing it's own output.

Orange no number off voltage regulator remove and discard.

914 Green Red wire goes to Green red wire on Alternator control plug, on my explorer serp it is bottom wire, which is also green/red stripe. This is the green wire in the RJM wire diagram above.

915, goes to hot alternator output, battery cable side, as well as yellow/white wire off alternator plug as shown above in RJM diagram.


Make sure you use a larger output cable, 6 gauge, from the alternator output to an inline 150 amp fuse, and the from the fuse to the starter solenoid battery side hot or to the battery. DO NOT JUST CONNECT #915 TO THE OUTPUT

915 will therefore be hot at all times but runs to ignition switch, which then runs ignition on side of fuse block

916 black wire still goes to starter solenoid battery side hot, hot all the time.

Center position of 4g plug is not used, seal off.

also make sure you use a larger output cable from the alternator output to an inline 150 amp fuse, and the from the fuse to the starter solenoid battery side hot or to the battery. DO NOT JUST CONNECT #915 TO THE OUTPUT



If my bronco catches fire i'll let you know.

Not to confuse you any more than you are, and there is nothing technically wrong with what the tech told you, but there is something I would personally change, see above in red.

 

[Stutsmo]

Attached is a pic of how I understood to wire the alternator. In a nutshell it goes as followes:

Alternator out has the black and orange wire to the fuse.

Yellow and white from the plug on the alternator is going to the same terminal on the fuse. I also have the yellow wire from the painless harness on that terminal because the way i understand it the yellow wire get connected to the yellow and white wire.

Also on the same terminal on the fuse. I have painless wires 915 and 916. I dont understand why..... but after reading the same thing for about an hour .... I just did what I thought I was supposed to do.

Green with red wire is going to the green with red on the painless harness.

On the other side of the fuse is the cable that just runs to the starter solenoid.

I ran the negative battery cable to the block from the battery along with another 6ga battery cable. The other end of that cable is fastened to a grounding lug I welded into my passenger inner fender. The alternator will be grounded on that lug also. Then I am also running another ground cable from that back to my negative battery terminal.
Should I attach a ground cable to the frame also?

Let me know if you see anything that you think might burn my Bronco down!

I hope this is correct so tomorrow I can move on to the Sniper portion of the electrical.

 

[DirtDonk]

Only see one thing obviously wrong, but don't think it'll cause a three-alarm fire or anything. And might not really be categorized as "wrong" but might not be the best practice.
That's the wires connected to the alternator side of the fuse, rather than the battery side.
If the fuse blows and you stop the engine (no alternator charge) then you've lost all of your battery power I think. If the fuse blows while the engine is running (and if the alternator is working) then the engine should stay running. But as soon as you shut down, it's all over until you replace the fuse.
Better to connect any power source wires to the battery side of the fuse then.

Is the small Red wire the main fuse panel wire to the Maxi-Fuse holder? Or is that the duty of the Black w/yellow wire I see?
Usually the Black w/yellow is from the stock alternator, so I'm guessing you just terminated it there for safety. It should also be on the battery side I would think, but if you choose to have it on one side of the fuse and the Red wire on the other, you need to fuse them both. If you keep it on the same battery side as the Red wire, then you will have an unprotected circuit powering the fuse panel from the backside so to speak.
Unless it has it's own fuse in the new Painless panel? I don't think so though, so check that out.

The Yellow wires are presumably the sensor wire (the one on the right) and the power source for the sensor wire from the Painless harness (the one on the left) which is no longer used.
So it's also ok to attach there, but I think it should also be on the battery side. No real reason I can actually formulate. Just that I think it should be there instead of on the alternator side.
Or you can just remove both of them and splice them together as Painless would expect. However as you have the one from the alternator, as you said is what many do and even more just connect it to the BAT stud on the alternator. I like your way better, but better still I think would be to splice the two together.
Assuming that the other Yellow wire is the one I'm thinking it is.

Can't see the joints under the tape of course, but hopefully those are all good to go.
I like that you used heat-shrink on the one end of the short cable between the Mega-Fuse and the starter relay. Any reason you could not do it to the other ends as well? And on the battery cable too?

What's the other Black wire hiding under the Green w/red one?

Paul

 

[Stutsmo]

Only see one thing obviously wrong, but don't think it'll cause a three-alarm fire or anything. And might not really be categorized as "wrong" but might not be the best practice.
That's the wires connected to the alternator side of the fuse, rather than the battery side.

I switched everything over to the Battery side Except the yellow from the plug end. I would have done that one too but the wire was to short and i didnt want to add another splice.

If the fuse blows and you stop the engine (no alternator charge) then you've lost all of your battery power I think. If the fuse blows while the engine is running (and if the alternator is working) then the engine should stay running. But as soon as you shut down, it's all over until you replace the fuse.
Better to connect any power source wires to the battery side of the fuse then.

Is the small Red wire the main fuse panel wire to the Maxi-Fuse holder?

small red wire is from the painless harness to the starter relay

Or is that the duty of the Black w/yellow wire I see?
Usually the Black w/yellow is from the stock alternator, so I'm guessing you just terminated it there for safety. It should also be on the battery side I would think, but if you choose to have it on one side of the fuse and the Red wire on the other, you need to fuse them both. If you keep it on the same battery side as the Red wire, then you will have an unprotected circuit powering the fuse panel from the backside so to speak.
Unless it has it's own fuse in the new Painless panel? I don't think so though, so check that out.

The Yellow wires are presumably the sensor wire (the one on the right) and the power source for the sensor wire from the Painless harness (the one on the left) which is no longer used.
So it's also ok to attach there, but I think it should also be on the battery side. No real reason I can actually formulate. Just that I think it should be there instead of on the alternator side.
Or you can just remove both of them and splice them together as Painless would expect.

However as you have the one from the alternator, as you said is what many do and even more just connect it to the BAT stud on the alternator. I like your way better, but better still I think would be to splice the two together.

I had the yellow wire from the harness sealed off when i was running the 3g alt, but in the thread I took my instruction from Eric001 said to tie it together with the yellow from the plug end. then later e said to tie them both to the fuse. the 2 wires together are not long enough to meet each other without making the rest of the harness look like a blind person installed them so I thought the next best thing would be to use the fuse to make a "connector".

Assuming that the other Yellow wire is the one I'm thinking it is.

Can't see the joints under the tape of course, but hopefully those are all good to go.

Good for now is a better way to put it.... I can and will do a better job asap but I had to keep the project moving with what I had for now

I like that you used heat-shrink on the one end of the short cable between the Mega-Fuse and the starter relay. Any reason you could not do it to the other ends as well? And on the battery cable too?

What's the other Black wire hiding under the Green w/red one?

I believe that is actually a Brown wire that goes to the starter relay.

Paul

Thanks again for your help Paul. I appreciate it!

 

[Howard2x4x4]

This wiring mumbo-jumbo is NOT as easy as I had thought.

 

[Stutsmo]

This wiring mumbo-jumbo is NOT as easy as I had thought.

It hasnt been easy but not super terrible either. Thank goodness we have a community that helps us figure things out when stuck.

 

[Stutsmo]

A few things to note on this thread for people serching just needing some help with their set up.

The Painless harness is just GOOD! all of the switched extra circuts have power at crank. There is even one with a pink wire so I used that one for switched power to pink wire on the main Sniper harness.

For the Hyperspark harness I used the red coil wire for its switched power. This actually ties in with the pink hyperspark and the red distributor lead. (The white lead from the distributor gets tied to the connector per the diagram) the rest of the electric part of the install was plug and play for me.

The 4G Explorer alternator wiring is working as it should I ended up worrying about this way too much.
I upgraded from the 3G set up so I basically just had to eliminate the middle wire on the plug into the alternator. Then i tied the yellow wire to the fused side of my 175 fuse and then also to the yellow wire that was taped off from the painless harness and tied it to the battery side of the 175amp fuse.

Then I took the Black wire that was taped off from the 3g install and put a ring terminal on it and along with the other black wire from the battery side of the starter relay I put them both on the battery side of the 175amp fuse.

All that was left after that was to run the 6ga wire from the alternator to the fused side of the 175amp fuse and then GROUND the crap out of it.

Weld a bolt to the side of the passanger fender, then run the battery main ground to the engine from the engine to the welded bolt, from the bolt to the frame, then from the alternator to the bolt.

If you are anything like me this upgrade it totally doable if you are even remotly a casual do it yourselfer.... There are a few notes of Advice I have to offer.

Keep reading the instructions over and over untill you understand them before moving on.
Spend the $30 plus shipping to ge the tool to take the un needed wires out of the harness instead of taping them off and leaving them hang.
If it seems overwelming, walk away think about it, go back to it, fix it.

Good luck, I hope this helps someone so it doesnt take them 11 days to figure all this out like it did me.

 

[raleigh_bronco]

Appreciate the updates and good info Stuts.