Paint Gurus am I doing this right??

[Stutsmo]

Let me start by saying I have never done body work/paint.
I am trying to move forward with my project on a limited budget. I am a few steps away from Body work/painting and not exactly sure how to proceed. I have been reading a lot of post on this site about painting and here is what I have come up with for my project. I am hoping someone will steer me in the right direction if I am headed down the wrong track.
I got a little impatient and skipped a few steps in the beginning of my build, now part of my tub has 1 coat of POR15 on it. Part of it is bare metal and all the new panels are coated with the black shipping primer.

Most of the POR15 already applied will eventually be covered in raptor liner. However when I look closely at what has already been applied I can see rust starting to show up where it didn't get covered very well, so it needs a second coat. The rest of the bare metal has started to flash rust but it isn't too bad. So I believe I should coat the rest of the exposed metal with 2 coats of POR15. I have been doing some looking and POR15 has an etching primer that they claim can be applied over POR15 that has been applied for years without scuffing. then I could seam seal the underside and apply a second coat. Then apply the raptor liner while the second coat is still tacky. This will take care of the inside of the tub and underside also.

So on the outside of the Bronco I am thinking of going with scuffing the primed panels then covering with an acrylic primer since I already have a gallon. Then apply all my seam sealer which I have bought some Lord Fusor 800ez and then apply body filler as needed. Once all that is done I should coat with an epoxy primer mixed as a sealer and then apply paint which is a single stage urethane which is already bought. Am I close here or is there a better/easier way to do this?

 

[broncoitis]

Stutsmo,

I wish that I could offer some advice here but I almost as clueless about painting as well. I have painted some stuff on my own that has come out pretty good I think but a whole truck would be a completely different ball game.

PM StupidBoy! He seems to know his stuff with painting for sure along with alot of other stuff. I think he would provide solid advice along with many others on here.

Good Luck Buddy! ;D

 

[Crawdad]

Allenfehey (sp) is the fella I have been paying a lot of attn to. He has a lot of knowledge on paints bc it's his job. I'm sure he will chime in at some point.

 

[Miker]

Allenfehey (sp) is the fella I have been paying a lot of attn to. He has a lot of knowledge on paints bc it's his job. I'm sure he will chime in at some point.

X3!!!

I just spent a half hour with Allen on the phone. I am having my daily driver painted and he was able to give me all kinds great advice for my painter. Your questions are definitely in his wheelhouse.
PM him and look no further,,,unless ya' want to...
My .02 worth

Good luck

 

[needabronco]

Personally I wouldn't top coat over POR15, especially bedliner. Cured POR is rock hard and if not properly prepped your bedliner will peel off in sheets!

If you have a lot of flash rust your going to have to sand it all down again or go to the media blaster to start fresh.

The steps I would follow are; go to bare metal, do your body work/filler, seam seal, prime (make sure your using an etching primer or a 'direct to metal' primer, paint. Use quality material and make sure they are all compatable products.

 

[lilwill12]

Here is a good short read by a guy with similar issues, Allen chimed in on this one. Good luck!

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218463&highlight=Hard+top+paint

 

[allenfahey]

POR needs at least 2 coats. I spray it on and apply 3. If you brush it on 2 will do. I've never used the POR Tie-Coat which is their primer they say you don't have to sand. Since you have some rust coming thru the existing POR I would sand what you have with 180 and apply the Metal Ready then apply 2 more coats of POR. Once that dries I would sand the POR with 220 and a red scuff pad. That will give the Raptor a good mechanical bond to adhere to. You could also use thier Tie-Coat primer but I would at least scuff the POR with a red Scotchbrite. You will then have to rescuff the Tie-Coat primer before applying the Raptor. Any bare metal needs U-POL primer prior to the bedliner. I have done like you suggested applying primer on tacky POR-15 prior to it drying but never have done it with Raptor. I know I have had success with 2K primers before. I wait till it's almost totally dry 1-2 hours. I apply a very dry coat on the POR and wait about 1/2 hour then apply 2-3 coats of 2K primer letting it flash oiff between coats.

For the outside do all your body work and finish it off in 180. Weather it's in bare metal or body work. Anything coarser can and will show sand scratches later down the road. Apply the epoxy primer and block with 180 again. Apply more epoxy and finish sanding in 320 and a red scuff pad if you are planning on using sealer. The "black primer" which is e-coat are the easiest panels to paint. All you need to do with those is sand with 320 and red scuff pad. Then all you need to do is apply sealer. After the sealer has flashed off apply the paint. No need to sand it again. In fact some sealers like Spies 5400 say you don't even have to sand the e-coat but I always do for a panel that is on the outside of the vehicle. You don't have to sand the underside of the hood if it's in e-coat if you use that type of sealer. Always read the TDS (technical data sheet) for the product you are using. It will give you mix ratios, dry times, substrates you can apply it to, ect. Some products have more than one TDS sheet for example the 5400 I use has a few. One is mixing for a primer, one a sealer, ect.
Feel free to ask any questions that you don't understand.

 

[Stutsmo]

Wow thanks for all the Great responses guys!! When I started this thread I had a feeling I was in over my head with this. But I am going to hang in there and get my Bronco painted one way or another.

I really don’t want to media blast off all the POR I have already applied simply because I got some money into it and my wife notices stuff like me doing things twice and it really irritates her. So I am by no means ignoring the suggestion, I just think it will be easier for me to explain a second coat than removing the POR and starting over.

So After reading though Allenfahey’s post 100 times until everything sank in, I do have a few questions I’ll start with the under body/ bed.

Ok here is how I understand the steps I need to take. If it is all the same I have decided to not use the tie coat primer since I have to scuff the POR anyway.

1. Sand POR with 180 and apply metal ready
2. Apply 1 more coat of POR if I use a brush or 2 more if I spray.
3. Sand POR with 220 and red scuff pad
4. Apply Raptor

My question is at what point during the above process do I apply the seam sealer around the wheel tubs?

Moving on to the outside of the Bronco….

1. Are the “epoxy” and “2K” primers the same thing?
2. What do you mean by a “Dry Coat”?
3. my last coat of primer before paint…. Does it have to be a sealer coat? Not sure if it matters what type of paint is sprayed, but my paint has been bought so all my primers/sealers will need to adapt to the paint.

 

[Broncofan76]

allen to the rescue - again. thanks dude! you are good to us painting rookies!

 

[Devin]

FWIW, my most of my rig has 2 coats of POR as a base. I left bare metal for the majority of the interior which was Line-Xd. However, the inside of the firewall, I applied 2 coats of POR, as I was not going to Line-X that area. However, the guys at LineX said that they would go ahead and put LineX up there also just to add to the insulation. I am not sure how they prepped it, but they applied the LineX primer over the POR after some type of scuffing/prep and then the LineX. It has held up great.

So, it can be done. That is my only point to all of that rambling above.

 

[allenfahey]

Apply the seam sealer prior to the Raptor for the inside of the tub. For the outside of the tub like the upper to lower 1/4's and tailight pockets you can apply the seam sealer inbetween the first and second primer. You can also apply the seam sealer just prior to spraying sealer. Depending on temperature wait about 45 minutes for it to setup. Never apply seam sealer to bare metal.

Epoxy and 2K are two different primers. If you use epoxy you can spray directly onto bare metal. 2K primer you have to use either an etch primer or wash primer (also called 1K) which is used for corrosion protection. Refere to your TDS sheet!

A dry coat is a light coat that you don't try to get coverage. Also back the gun off the panel. Once you practice spraying it will be obvious what I mean.

My last coat of primer before paint? Do you mean after you block sand the first coat of primer with 180? You then apply the last coat of primer and sand that with 320 followed by a red scuff pad. You can also final sand the primer with 400-600 and go straight to paint from there if you want too. The reasons I suggested sealer for you is generally you will have some small bare metal break thru's and possible 320-400 sand scratch show thru. The sealer will take care of all those. You are also painting e-coat panels and sealer is required prior to painting those. You will have a uniformed color to apply the paint if you use sealer.

After re-reading your original post you mentioned flash rust. My thinking of flash rust is VERY VERY light rust. No pitting what so ever and you can still see bare metal thru it. To take care of that type of rust you sand it with 180 and wash it off with metal conditioner. The POR Metal Ready is a good product for that as well as Dupont 5717S. Treat the metal prior to primer.

 

[allenfahey]

FWIW, my most of my rig has 2 coats of POR as a base. I left bare metal for the majority of the interior which was Line-Xd. However, the inside of the firewall, I applied 2 coats of POR, as I was not going to Line-X that area. However, the guys at LineX said that they would go ahead and put LineX up there also just to add to the insulation. I am not sure how they prepped it, but they applied the LineX primer over the POR after some type of scuffing/prep and then the LineX. It has held up great.

So, it can be done. That is my only point to all of that rambling above.

I'm not 100% sure how Linex and the Rhino bedliners are prepped but I think they really gouge up the surface real good with 80 grit on a grinder of some sort????? I think they spray it on hot and it comes out of the gun protecting bare metal. Bed liners that you do yourself like the Raptor is actually a urethane coating just like automotive paint. That is why it requires a primer prior to applying it. Whenever I have sprayed a truck bed at work that had bodywork done to the inside I have always sent it off to Rhino or Linex without any primer or sealer. Never heard any of them complain? If I have time tomorrow I'll call them and ask what their prep is.

 

[Rymadd]

I have always been told the black primer that comes on new panels is garbage and should be completly sanded off before painting

 

[allenfahey]

I have always been told the black primer that comes on new panels is garbage and should be completly sanded off before painting

Whoever told you that was dead wrong. Out of all the paint classes I've been too, I've never heard any mention of removing it. In fact they have suggested to try not breaking thru the e-coat. E-coat is the best for corrosion protection.

 

[rastiss]

black e-coat is the BEST bond and should not be removed. the guys that tell you to sand it off have never talked to a paint rep nor had paint manufacturer training or read the paint TSB's...the factory e-coat is usually applied by dipping with electrolosis.

 

[Stutsmo]

Allen, Thanks for all your help! I greatly appreciate you walking me through this process.
I have actually taken a few hours just reading these post (yes I am a little slower than most people!) to make sure I get the process right.

Here is how I interpret everything….

Underbody/truck bed (it’s a U14)
1. Sand existing POR with 180 and apply metal ready
2. Add 1 more coat of POR with a brush
3. Sand POR with 220 and a red scuff pad
4. Scuff ecoat on inside of lower quarter panels with 320 and a red scuff pad
5. Apply seem sealer
6. Apply raptor


Outside panels
1. Apply body filler as needed. sand filler and bare metal with 180
2. Apply epoxy primer to those areas only
3. Apply seam sealer
4. Block sand with 180
5. Apply 2nd coat epoxy sand with 320 and red pad
6. Scuff ecoat panels with 320 and red pad
7. Apply sealer and let flash
8. Paint

How am I doing so far?

 

[Stutsmo]

I still have plenty of questions about specifics. but I want to make sure I understand the process first!

 

[allenfahey]

Allen, Thanks for all your help! I greatly appreciate you walking me through this process.
I have actually taken a few hours just reading these post (yes I am a little slower than most people!) to make sure I get the process right.

Here is how I interpret everything….

Underbody/truck bed (it’s a U14)
1. Sand existing POR with 180 and apply metal ready
2. Add 1 more coat of POR with a brush
3. Sand POR with 220 and a red scuff pad
4. Scuff ecoat on inside of lower quarter panels with 320 and a red scuff pad
5. Apply seem sealer
6. Apply raptor


Outside panels
1. Apply body filler as needed. sand filler and bare metal with 180
2. Apply epoxy primer to those areas only
3. Apply seam sealer
4. Block sand with 180
5. Apply 2nd coat epoxy sand with 320 and red pad
6. Scuff ecoat panels with 320 and red pad
7. Apply sealer and let flash
8. Paint

How am I doing so far?

I would apply sealer or primer to the e-coat lower 1/4's prior to the Raptor. It should work with only the Raptor but the Raptor is just a urethane paint and you always apply sealer prior to paint on e-coat parts.

On the outside panels I would swap step's 3 and 4. Or even apply the seam sealer after step 6. If you apply the seam sealer and have to block sand it you can mess it up.

 

[chandaman_05]

I did 2 coats of POR and then applied my Liner over the top when the POR got tacky. That's what the instructions on my liner said to do and its held up great so far. (Hasn't been used much yet )

 

[Stutsmo]

Does anyone have a “hook up” for some PPG DP40 epoxy primer? I can’t find it locally. I have been looking on line but not having much luck.