Ram Assist Steering

[Okie69]

So back from OCBR and of course I've got a list of upgrades I need/want to do as a result. First on the list is power steering with a ram assist. I'm running 35s right now with plans to go up to 37s when these tires wear out.

I'm starting to put together a parts list and wanted to get y'alls opinions on it.

I'm looking at this kit:
https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produ...ring_System_Deluxe/bronco_Power_Steering_Kits $1150

This remote reservoir
https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produ...ual-Return/Bronco_Extreme_Duty_Steering_Pumps $195

Then I'd send the new gearbox off to West Texas Off-Road for tapping and porting plus their ram kit. It’s $195 for the port and tap and $371 for the ram kit.
https://www.westtexasoffroad.com/

Plus I'll need the double groove crank and water pump pulleys, and this list doesn't include shipping. I am looking at $2K-$2250 all said and done.

My main questions are.

1. Can I use the remote reservoir with the regular non external reservoir pump? It seems like taking the return from the pump to the external reservoir then the return line from the reservoir to the pump would work, but I'm not sure. They do offer a hi volume pump with an external reservoir, but not in a kit with the power steering box. I could source a power steering box directly from a manufacturer I guess.

2. Is this roughly what I can expect to pay for this upgrade? Seems pricey to me. I know I'm getting some extras with the WH kit but still.

3. The fun one. How would you do it?

 

[Yeller]

I would simplify some. By doing This Kit from Wild Horses, be sure to add the dual groove pulley if you don’t have one. I’d skip the remote reservoir. Send the box to west Texas for porting and cylinder. If the core charge wasn’t $600, I’d just order the kit from west Texas.

In my opinion the remote reservoir is not needed, even with hydroboost. Now if you’re going to go racing and run 4000 rpm for hours sure, or in a tube buggy that might need to work upside down. Other wise the canned ham pump is plenty sufficient. On my bronco I’m running a tiny reservoir for a Cadillac CTSV that is designed to run a rack and pinion, works just fine.

 

[okie4570]

I would simplify some. By doing This Kit from Wild Horses, be sure to add the dual groove pulley if you don’t have one. I’d skip the remote reservoir. Send the box to west Texas for porting and cylinder. If the core charge wasn’t $600, I’d just order the kit from west Texas.

In my opinion the remote reservoir is not needed, even with hydroboost. Now if you’re going to go racing and run 4000 rpm for hours sure, or in a tube buggy that might need to work upside down. Other wise the canned ham pump is plenty sufficient. On my bronco I’m running a tiny reservoir for a Cadillac CTSV that is designed to run a rack and pinion, works just fine.

I have that kit on my 71', I've had it since 2012 and it was on there when I bought it, no issues whatsoever with it. Still haven't gotten around to ram assist, and I run 36" Super Swampers and it's been fine for what I do with it at Hot Springs.

 

[Okie69]

I would simplify some. By doing This Kit from Wild Horses, be sure to add the dual groove pulley if you don’t have one. I’d skip the remote reservoir. Send the box to west Texas for porting and cylinder. If the core charge wasn’t $600, I’d just order the kit from west Texas.

In my opinion the remote reservoir is not needed, even with hydroboost. Now if you’re going to go racing and run 4000 rpm for hours sure, or in a tube buggy that might need to work upside down. Other wise the canned ham pump is plenty sufficient. On my bronco I’m running a tiny reservoir for a Cadillac CTSV that is designed to run a rack and pinion, works just fine.

Interesting. I asked a few guys at OCBR and they all said not to forget the remote reservoir for the extra fluid capacity. Come to think of it most of them were running hydro boost as well though.

I like it though! Simpler install and save a few bucks.

 

[Okie69]

I have that kit on my 71', I've had it since 2012 and it was on there when I bought it, no issues whatsoever with it. Still haven't gotten around to ram assist, and I run 36" Super Swampers and it's been fine for what I do with it at Hot Springs.

Oh I’m sure I could get away with just the power steering, but after my manual steering experience last weekend I want to go overboard with it!

 

[okie4570]

Oh I’m sure I could get away with just the power steering, but after my manual steering experience last weekend I want to go overboard with it!

Oh I would go ram steering for sure. Power steering will feel like ram steering to you right now though lol.

 

[jamesroney]

So back from OCBR and of course I've got a list of upgrades I need/want to do as a result. First on the list is power steering with a ram assist. I'm running 35s right now with plans to go up to 37s when these tires wear out.

I'm starting to put together a parts list and wanted to get y'alls opinions on it.

I'm looking at this kit:
https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produ...ring_System_Deluxe/bronco_Power_Steering_Kits $1150

This remote reservoir
https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produ...ual-Return/Bronco_Extreme_Duty_Steering_Pumps $195

Then I'd send the new gearbox off to West Texas Off-Road for tapping and porting plus their ram kit. It’s $195 for the port and tap and $371 for the ram kit.
https://www.westtexasoffroad.com/

Plus I'll need the double groove crank and water pump pulleys, and this list doesn't include shipping. I am looking at $2K-$2250 all said and done.

My main questions are.

1. Can I use the remote reservoir with the regular non external reservoir pump? It seems like taking the return from the pump to the external reservoir then the return line from the reservoir to the pump would work, but I'm not sure. They do offer a hi volume pump with an external reservoir, but not in a kit with the power steering box. I could source a power steering box directly from a manufacturer I guess.

2. Is this roughly what I can expect to pay for this upgrade? Seems pricey to me. I know I'm getting some extras with the WH kit but still.

3. The fun one. How would you do it?

If you are set on doing this, I might have a deal for you. I have a friend with a very nice 74 Ranger that was a well built crawler. It has a 78 Bronco 4x4x2 box that has been ported, and has the ram assist on it. He has decided to make his Bronco more of a Boulevard crawler...so he wants to remove this perfectly good (and nearly new...) set up. He just wants to go back to stock, and lower his Bronco and run 33's.

I have a perfect 4 turn Bronco Saginaw box that I could swap him, then take his stuff and send it to you. I know he wants to do it very soon. I just don't want to come off of my Bronco box. I think $1500 would get it done. PM me if you are interested, and I'll text you some pics.

 

[Okie69]

If you are set on doing this, I might have a deal for you. I have a friend with a very nice 74 Ranger that was a well built crawler. It has a 78 Bronco 4x4x2 box that has been ported, and has the ram assist on it. He has decided to make his Bronco more of a Boulevard crawler...so he wants to remove this perfectly good (and nearly new...) set up. He just wants to go back to stock, and lower his Bronco and run 33's.

I have a perfect 4 turn Bronco Saginaw box that I could swap him, then take his stuff and send it to you. I know he wants to do it very soon. I just don't want to come off of my Bronco box. I think $1500 would get it done. PM me if you are interested, and I'll text you some pics.

Dang that doesn’t sound bad, but I’m a couple of months out on doing this. Just trying to get my ducks in a row right now.

 

[Yeller]

I always find it surprising that everyone thinks assist is just for off-road. There is no better steering damper, it removes all of the load and abuse off of the steering box.

 

[bmc69]

Interesting. I asked a few guys at OCBR and they all said not to forget the remote reservoir for the extra fluid capacity. Come to think of it most of them were running hydro boost as well though.

I like it though! Simpler install and save a few bucks.

I'm running a Sag dual-return pump on my '78 Bronco....power steering with ram assist and hydroboost. No external reservoir. Zero problems.

 

[JeepGuy]

I always find it surprising that everyone thinks assist is just for off-road. There is no better steering damper, it removes all of the load and abuse off of the steering box.

That is a very good point.

 

[Yeller]

I used to recommend steering assist as one of the last upgrades, now it’s one of the first, regardless of intended use. All but eliminates worn out boxes and cracked frames. I’ve found often they even drive better by reducing steering induced wander from frame flex, suspension upset from drag link angles and greatly reduce the possibility of severe death wabble. With assist if you notice some wabble, you can address the issue and usually it’s easy to find the worn part causing the issue because it is well worn and not still tight but not tight enough.

 

[Okie69]

Seems to me like it has a ton of benefits with few downsides. A little more complexity to the system and the possibility of a slight delay in steering response?

 

[Yeller]

Seems to me like it has a ton of benefits with few downsides. A little more complexity to the system and the possibility of a slight delay in steering response?

There is no delay in steering response like driving on the road or in parking lots. However on some systems the steering is slower, sometimes just at idle, sometimes all of the time and some never. I depends on where the slowness comes from. Some, like mine, it is the pump doesn't move enough volume at idle so its slow, all the power you could need but the steering motion is slow, get the RPM up to 1200 or so and the problem goes away on mine but some it never does. On some systems the box restricts enough flow to slow the speed down enough that it does the same thing. I've only had a couple of installs that were as fast as you could spin the wheel in all scenarios. The system on my bronco is probably the slowest I've come across, but it uses a pump that should not work for just a box let alone a box and a ram, and I'm not willing at this point to completely change my accessory drive to accommodate a different pump, especially when the only time I feel it is an issue is when shooting muddy hills and I have to lift off the gas because it changed direction unexpectedly to a tree, I don't do that but once every 4 or 5 years LOL.

 

[Broncobowsher]

As for reservoir size, if it is a double ended ram there is no need for oversized. But a single ended ram needs expansion room/ extra capacity to take the volume of the rod as it goes in and out of the cylinder. Diameter of the rod and the stroke is the volume of fluid that will change as you go lock to lock.

 

[BanditBronco]

Steve, you ever see anyone get more than 8" of steering travel out of a 44?

 

[Yeller]

Steve, you ever see anyone get more than 8" of steering travel out of a 44?

I’ve seen 8-1/2”, but the ujoints usually begin to bind past 8” with aftermarket chrom axles. The axles can be clearanced some to work at that distance. 36-40 degrees is about as tight as knuckles will turn without having interference with the ujoint yokes and sometimes brake calipers.

Bit of steering trivia…..Dana 44 axle yokes don’t respond to clearancing as well as Dana 60’s. clearancing tends to let the ears spread under very high loads past 38-40 degrees, causing ujoint and/or axle failure. Dana 60’s can be clearanced to turn to 50 degrees and everything is quite happy. Steering linkage and tire clearance gets way difficult with that much steering angle lol

 

[Apogee]

If you do run the remote reservoir, which I would for the added fluid capacity and filter, you'll need to run a non-reservoir pump housing, otherwise the remote reservoir will overfill the pump housing and it will come out the fill tube/cap. In talking with the guys at PSC and WTOR, they both suggested Ø1.5" diameter rams for light-duty, multi-purpose, weekend warrior type rigs on smaller tires (<Ø40") like mine, noting that I'm planning on running Ø37" tires, as that should be the most responsive and provide the fastest turning. For the more aggro applications running bigger tires and/or needing more force in general (like on slickrock), they suggested stepping up to the Ø1.75" ram as a good option so long as the slightly slower steering isn't an issue.

 

[Yeller]

I haven't said this in a while..... a Filter is mandatory in the return line. you can go fancy with a full blown spin on hydraulic filter or an in line. here's examples of both. So is a cooler, the OEM Ford one is sufficient.

This is on my Bronco

This is on my 1970 Gladiator

there are a couple of schools of thought and not everyone agrees. Some say a larger reservoir is needed and some say it doesn't matter. I've done both on both box/assist applications and full hydraulic systems. The only advantage I've found to the larger system is it can have a leak longer and still work.

In racing applications where there are a lot of big steering impacts like hitting craters, large rocks and dare I say trees, using a pump without a reservoir like an explorer is important. It is possible to pressurize the "canned spam" pump enough to cause it to fail, however I've only seen that happen with PSC's aluminum reservoir attached to it.

 

[Boss Hugg]

I would simplify some. By doing This Kit from Wild Horses, be sure to add the dual groove pulley if you don’t have one. I’d skip the remote reservoir. Send the box to west Texas for porting and cylinder. If the core charge wasn’t $600, I’d just order the kit from west Texas.

Is this kit the 4x4x2 box? I've never spent much time studying the 4x4x2 to understand its advantages, but I do have some stuff to build one. Just haven't seen the need. But if you tell me it's faster steering than the EB box....maybe I'll have a ported EB box to deal to someone that needs one (and I have that someone in mind!)