Ram assist..

[Kalex]

Hi All,

Thanks in advance for any/all feedback. I looked around and read what I could find on this topic. No doubt missed something. I'll try to keep it short(it won't be), but will gladly answer any questions.

My power steering pump has to be changed and it's a pain. I have had a slight drip in my steering box for years(6 turn box) so since "I'm in that direction" I may as well change it too. So my Bronco isn't down too long I sent a good 6 turn box to Lee's to rebuild, upgrade internals, port, quick ratio, etc.. They will be replacing my CIII pump as well and it will be 1,650 PSI with 3 gpm flow. I have hydroboost. Same pump I have now.

I have 35 inch tires and 3.5 suspension lift. WH 3 way adjustable linkage(pics attached). ARB's Front and rear. Thinking of changing to WH clydesdale and adding ram assist. Lee's will also do the assist cylinder so most things working together is done by them. My frame is reinforced where the steering box attaches, I have a reinforced drop bracket(pic below) as well that I would like to keep vs a riser(riser's weren't really a thing when I built mine) and I don't want to cut that off and start over. I plan to stay TRU as I have never had a problem bending/breaking tie rods. I don't wheel that hard apparently.

I know a lot is subjective and each Bronco is unique to a certain extent. My main goal has always been a Bronco that has awesome street manners(because that's mostly where it lives), but is Rubicon, dunes, Moab, etc..ready. I avoid body damage when wheeling, but this is the Bronco I have now. Can go 70 or whatever with no hands on the wheel and then hit the trails. I really, really don't want to mess that up although I guess I can always go back.

Questions: My main thing I need to figure out is where on the passenger side axle tube or ? to mount one attachment point(2 welded tabs perhaps). I plan to use a double shear clamp on the tie rod itself on the driver's side. I will check for clearances of everything once I mock it up. I have the WH diff. cover so hopefully the clamp will clear. I also should have room between the knuckle and wheel for the ends. For those using ram assist how do you like it? Worth the upgrade? Any pics of mountings or passenger's side ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again...

 

[Yeller]

I’m not much help on fitting it in, but am help in the living with experience itself. I put assist on everything. Saves beating up your steering box, even if you just wheel dirt roads. It will always steer, and if it doesn’t it needs to not, something is not happy. There is no better steering damper, does a great job of smoothing out the big hits without removing feel. With Lee’s doing the port work and pump, it will work great.

 

[Kalex]

I’m not much help on fitting it in, but am help in the living with experience itself. I put assist on everything. Saves beating up your steering box, even if you just wheel dirt roads. It will always steer, and if it doesn’t it needs to not, something is not happy. There is no better steering damper, does a great job of smoothing out the big hits without removing feel. With Lee’s doing the port work and pump, it will work great.

Thank you. This is exactly the kind of feedback(good or bad) I am looking for.

 

[Yeller]

The biggest hurdle is packaging. It gets very tight and requires some creativity. The ram on my bronco is in single shear on both ends, and the one on my J truck is single shear on the axle and double shear on the tierod.

 

[Apogee]

Packaging is tough...I'm in the middle of doing this on a F150 full-width HP D44 with GM TRO, 8" PSC ram-assist, 4x4x2 box, etc, and everything is tight. With that said, anything you can do to buy yourself some extra space between the axle and tie-rod, I would recommend doing. I think one of the offset tie-rod ends currently on the market today might be more beneficial than the outright burliness of the Clydesdale setup, especially considering you're not seeming to have any strength or reliability type issues with what you have now.

The other thing I would suggest you consider is the profile of the clamp you intend to use to connect the ram-assist cylinder to the tie-rod, because the "chonkier" it is, the more likely it's going to interfere with your diff cover, particularly at full driver. I fabricated mine out of Ø2.00" x 1/8" DOM to clamp over the Ø1.50" DOM tie-rod...it's double shear and low-profile, which reduced the amount of interference issues with the Ruff Stuff fabricated diff cover I have, though I still did need to clearance the cover a bit and it's super close. I need to replace the 5/8" hex head connecting the ram-assist rod-end with either a button head or machine down the head height so I don't cut a groove in the cover when it finally gets back into the wild.

 

[Kalex]

Great information and suggestions Apogee, thank you. I will look into what you said. My main reason for considering swapping to the Clydesdale is my tie rod is 1.25 and with the ram attached I’m not sure if that’s strong enough. My current thought is two tabs that mount toward the driver’s side just beside where the track bar mount is on the axle.

 

[jeffncs]

Please post pics of your ram assist setups. I have a rebuilt, ported PS box and a PSC Ram. I have everything except the mounts at this point….

My truck is a 77 with the HD t-style conversion linkage. I’m thinking about swapping over to a TRO for the clearance and additional space.

 

[kman67]

The biggest hurdle is packaging. It gets very tight and requires some creativity. The ram on my bronco is in single shear on both ends, and the one on my J truck is single shear on the axle and double shear on the tierod.

Hey Yeller, can you show some pics of your single sheer set up. I’ve been trying to fit this in and am having trouble finding the right spot. I’d like to see how you set it up to withstand the punishment.
Thanks
Kyle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1969]

https://tomsoffroad.com/products/psc-x-toms-offroad-steering-gear-ram-assist

Has anyone bought and installed this kit?

 

[Yeller]

Here’s the pics I sent to the OP in a PM as part of a separate conversation. The ram out in the open is my bronco, it is bolted to a high steer arm on the knuckle. The other is my J Truck, it runs a 78 bronco tie rod so it is bronco related . I always weld tabs to the tie rod for the ram. FYI I do single shear just to antagonize people, it really is strong enough as long as the mount has structure and typically is easier to make. The tie rod side is always double shear with welded tabs. I don’t understand the “must use a clamp” on the tie rod, the clamp needs welded to not slip under high loads so save the money and weld on some tabs. I also find the mass of the clamp to complicate packaging, everything gets close to everything.

 

[ntsqd]

Double shear done correctly, which I have NEVER seen done on an off-road vehicle and only rarely on a road racing vehicle, is a complicated construction. Yet somehow it became a mantra on forums. I'm good with single shear that is well done, and even better when an "SCCA Washer"* is used on single shear.

I have tried to use one of the tie-rod clamps on the Wagon and it won't clear the drag-link. Were I to put it on the drag-link it solves nothing because it won't clear the tie-rod. I'm likely going to end up building something like this, only the clamp part will be as thin walled as the welded-on stop sleaves:

Then all the clamp does is keep the tabs from rotating instead of also needing to resist any translation force from the damper or a ram. Those sleeves are 'baloney cut' so that the welds don't create a perpendicular stress riser in the tie-rod tube.

*An "SCCA Washer" is called that because of an SCCA rule that single shear attachments of rod ends must have a large, thick washer placed on the out-board side of the SRE. The OD of this washer must be large enough to contain the body of the SRE if the the SRE should fail. The point of the washer is to keep a terribly worn or damaged SRE from being able to abandon ship on it's own.

 

[Yeller]

I too agree on the washers on anything critical, control arm, steering linkage, etc. you don’t see them on the pictures I posted for a few reasons, most importantly this is non critical equipment, it is important but no one dies if it falls off, it could damage surrounding equipment, but deemed as low risk. The second reason is packaging, there’s no room for them.

For reference Here is said washer, also referred to as a safety washer.

 

[jeffncs]

I wish I could see this setup in person. I’ve mapped out lines, mounts and the piston a couple times and always scratch my head wondering how to work the puzzle pieces into place….

The Duff heim steering as TRO would help my situation but the 15” rims are reported to be a fit ent issue and I can’t afford different rims/tires!

 

[Kalex]

I'm with jeffncs on this. I am going to have to gather some parts and do a thorough mock up before I can see what options I have. I have never even seen a safety or SCCA washer.

 

[ntsqd]

I agree with the "if no one will die if..." omission. SCCA doesn't care - single shear pivots get them. I'll guess that folks like Pegasus Racing have sorted out what passes tech for SCCA racers. Looks like their washers are the same as Yeller's link: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3068
We're not as constrained. For those places where I want one I start with one of these: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/washers/oversized-washers-2~~/performance~high-strength-1/ with a smaller OD one under it if needed for movement. Sadly this all came about because an SCCA racer died from allowing his SRE's to get so worn that a body did pop off the ball and cause a bad wreck.

I have seen the inspection cover used as the ram anchor. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Nice in that it tucks the ram in out of the way behind the tie-rod and in the space created by the cover, but I do wonder about those reversing forces effect on the sealing of the cover.

 

[Kalex]

Thx for all the dialogue and discussion. It does help. I am not interested in attaching it to my diff. cover if it can be avoided. I'm going to keep looking into things and see what transpires. I wish I would have paid attention to this exact mod. at some of the amazing Bronco's I have seen in Florence, Medford ,Moab, Big Bear, etc. Then I would have more ideas. I just wasn't planning to do this, but here I am.

 

[Apogee]

Here are some pics of the clamp I made for my setup, noting it hasn't been fully welded in the mock-up image. I modeled this after one my brother and I made for his Toyota back in the day, and he's never had it slip axially or radially on the tie-rod, but as a clamp, it allows for full range of toe adjustment, unlike a tab welded directly to the tie-rod.

 

[Yeller]

I have attached them to the cover a couple of times. I thought way to much about it leaking, I counter sunk the 4 bolts in the center of the cover to provide some positive location, then on a another I got the bright idea to dowl pin the cover. It all worked but it all was a pain. Then did a few with nothing, just properly torqued fasteners. None leaked. So it does work. What made me decide it wouldn’t leak was Currie putting a control arm on the cover of their rock jock 60 for a TJ.

 

[ntsqd]

The enginerd in me gave some thought to counter-boring the diff for a couple shoulder bolts in place of normal bolts for holding the cover on, but I thought that might be a bit too much. If we were launching this into space I'd probably do that, but otherwise...... smear it with Right Stuff and torque the cover bolts.

 

[ksagis]

Couple other guidelines that others can comment on as well:

-Try to keep geometry as inline as possible
-Bigger rams are supposed to be more twitchy steering wise
-Seems to be two schools of thought on attaching it to tie or pitman arm. I dont’t know what pro’s and con’s of those are

Mine goes from axle tube to tie rod