Rear axle squaring

[bigmuddy]

Make sure to torque the U bolts and then go back in a few hundred miles and check, then recheck them again. They can and will loosen after driving.

 

[H20rider]

Okay, James.
It should be quite obvious that I am not a mechanic. I rely on mechanics, advice, research, and way too much trial and error with my resurrections.
That said, I will elaborate on my “claims.”
- A shop installed the blocks while I was having a new exhaust added. Asking them about the passenger side anchoring bolt produced blank faced shrugs and “I don’t know”s.
-I agree that aping on the driver’s side axle should not have produced appreciable movement, but my reasoning was that because it acted as the vertex of an angle, any movement or even a release of strain there could help at the other end of the axle. (Of course, this vertex model was complicated but the drive shaft /differential acting as a pivot on a lever arm). Tapping the driver side axle probably did very little other than to get me up, moving, away from the passenger side for a minute and then returning.
-The “ new u-bolt” mention was only meant to forestal the predicted admonishments I would likely receive.
Also, for me this was all a solution to a temporary problem, in that soon I plan to replace the leaf springs and remove the lift blocks. Delving into all this axle alignment issue served to move the leaf replacement up on the waiting list.
Thanks for your commentary, as it prompted me to be more complete in my recounting of this mini-saga, and added to my knowledge.

 

[H20rider]

Make sure to torque the U bolts and then go back in a few hundred miles and check, then recheck them again. They can and will loosen after driving.

Thank you. I will. I probably would have forgotten to do that!

 

[jamesroney]

H20 Rider,

You don't need to be a mechanic to own a Bronco. Most of the mechanics I meet are just glorified parts changers, and the good ones end up burning out after a few years. The best mechanics are the ones that don't do it for a living. You can't solve unique and complex technical problems when you are trying to make flat-rate.

Lots of Bronco's out there on lift blocks. Every F350 (and most F250's) built since 1980 rides on lift blocks. There is nothing wrong with a properly engineered and properly installed lift block.

The problem is that there are a lot of poorly engineered lift blocks, and (as you have learned) some poorly installed lift blocks. So they garner a lot of hate. Plus, there's money to be made selling new springs.

I only jumped into the thread when the solution didn't match the problem. I still don't understand where the original spring center bolt went, and why it would only be missing on one side. It takes work to remove a center bolt. The bolt was there when the spring was built. People usually don't do extra work for no reason. The odds are that if it's missing on one side, it's missing on the other.

If you like your ride and suspension, why would you ever install new springs? I love the factory springs. They are a good compromise for compliance and spring rate.

As far as muffler shops go, it is really hard to find a good one. It's all about the technician that does the work. The best one's are artists. You want an artist to fabricate your exhaust. You do NOT want an artist to install your lift blocks.

I also get admonished for reusing u-bolts. and head bolts. and main cap bolts, and other torque to yield fasteners. But I also understand elastic deformation, modulus, and strain recovery. And I have a couple of engineering degrees, and 40 years of practice. So it's not really admonishment. It's just noise.

I'm glad that you are back on the road.

 

[R1bit]

So I was sitting on the sidelines, watching this thread, and trying to stay quiet. But now you got me.

You claim that the passenger side leaf spring center bolt is missing. BUT, you also claim that the u-bolts are "new from. few months ago"

OK, what's the story? Who installed the lift blocks, and where is the old center bolt? What is the probability that whoever removed the passenger center bolt didn't pull the driver's center bolt? why would anyone take out a spring center bolt? There has to be a reason. (Usually it's because the bolt head is too big for the lift block.)

You also claim that you had to use a come-along to square the axle. But you say that you "tapped the driver's side toward the back" Sorry, but that's not right. If the driver's side MOVED when you hit it, then there's something wrong over there. My guess is that the same person that left out the center bolt on the right also left out the center bolt on the left. And if the u-bolts are torqued correctly, that axle is not moving even if the center bolt is broken. I highly recommend that you check BOTH sides.

People are funny, because they think that spring center bolts break and cause the u-bolts to come loose. But that is completely backwards. The u-bolts come loose, and then the movement of the axle breaks the center bolt. Your situation is unique because the bolt was GONE. It didn't vaporize. Where is it?

And there's nothing wrong with re-using a good leaf spring u-bolt. As long as the threads are good, and the bolt is not damaged, it is perfectly acceptable to re-use them. Usually the threads are not good, and usually they are rusty and junk. But as long as they are clean, and the nuts turn easily by hand, (all the way) then they are fine.

The good news is that you've already fixed the passenger side. Now go finish the job. Then take a string, or tape measure, and loop it around the front and rear axle. Measure both sides. If they are within 1/8 inch, then you are good. Still rooting for you!

James.

Ok so I’m a newbie and not exactly mechanically inclined but here’s my problem. I’ve had my Bronco about 2 months and worked through a multitude of problems and I’m down to the rear end. Sorry this is long winded but here goes. I had 4 four bent rims which I straightened and one bad tire so I replaced all four tires because they no longer made the replacement . Now the the new tires are exactly the same size and manufacturer just AT 3 instead of AT2. Now here’s where the problems started. I had plenty of clearance between the tire and the rear fenders before the swap but now I have less than 1/4 inch on the right and my tire will rub sometimes. When I bought it had all new Tom’s off-road stock suspension but I went ahead and changed the leaf springs at my mechanics suggestion. I have new body mount bushings as well. Today when I picked it up there was zero change if anything slightly worse. He has since suggested air shocks…Things I’ve done, fuel pump, gas tank and sending unit, Speedo cable, wiring pigtails, steering column and all new switched and e brake. Help Please I want to drive !

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry to hear about the dilemma R1. I can't say for sure, but it's entirely possible your tires are larger. Sure, they may be the "same size" according to the listed numbers on the sidewall, but that does not mean anything in the tire world. Well, it does mean something, but not much in the way of consistency you can count on.
What size tires are they? And what size wheels?
How did you go about fixing the bent wheels? If some form of disassembly was involved, it's possible too that they are not longer precisely the same offset as they were previously.
This is less likely than the tires being different, but still possible I would think.

With new body mounts too, there could be some shift in location. Do you have more clearance on one side than the other? If so the first thing I would try is to loosen the mounts and manhandle the body a bit to see if that can help.

Good luck.

paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I forgot to ask if the body was uncut. In other words, the rear fenders.
With stock height suspension and uncut rear fenders there is not much wiggle room to fit tires. Only a few available sizes fit, and only a few available wheel widths and offsets will fit. The combination is very important to not rubbing.
But hopefully some of the stuff previously mentioned will help.

In the meantime, just more information about the Broncos is helpful to us. Such as what year is it, and what modifications have been made other than replacement parts to get it running.
Do you know all the stuff that the PO (previous owner) did?

Got pics? We love to see pics!

Paul

 

[R1bit]

Sorry to hear about the dilemma R1. I can't say for sure, but it's entirely possible your tires are larger. Sure, they may be the "same size" according to the listed numbers on the sidewall, but that does not mean anything in the tire world. Well, it does mean something, but not much in the way of consistency you can count on.
What size tires are they? And what size wheels?
How did you go about fixing the bent wheels? If some form of disassembly was involved, it's possible too that they are not longer precisely the same offset as they were previously.
This is less likely than the tires being different, but still possible I would think.

With new body mounts too, there could be some shift in location. Do you have more clearance on one side than the other? If so the first thing I would try is to loosen the mounts and manhandle the body a bit to see if that can help.

Good luck.

paul

The bent wheel were put on a machine but as far as the actual process I really don’t know. I definitely have more clearance on one side so I’ll get someone to manhandle the body. Original steelies and the tires 265/70 r15

 

[R1bit]

I forgot to ask if the body was uncut. In other words, the rear fenders.
With stock height suspension and uncut rear fenders there is not much wiggle room to fit tires. Only a few available sizes fit, and only a few available wheel widths and offsets will fit. The combination is very important to not rubbing.
But hopefully some of the stuff previously mentioned will help.

In the meantime, just more information about the Broncos is helpful to us. Such as what year is it, and what modifications have been made other than replacement parts to get it running.
Do you know all the stuff that the PO (previous owner) did?

Got pics? We love to see pics!

How do I post pictures?

 

[R1bit]

Uncut. Stock height suspension. PS,PB, Vintage air, engine rebuild, trans and rear end were all done by the PO. It was “supposed” to be done…

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, we know how that goes!

 

[m_m70]

the first thing I would try is to loosen the mounts and manhandle the body a bit to see if that can help.

This.....once loose, the body does have some play. What size tires you running? Wondering also if there was any body lift in the bushings they replaced.........

 

[R1bit]

This.....once loose, the body does have some play. What size tires you running? Wondering also if there was any body lift in the bushings they replaced.........

265/75r15. I have no idea if the bushings had a lift. I have a brand new set of stock height I ordered and never used. Seem to be stock piling parts. Lol. It definitely has the Bronco lean so maybe the c bushings… going to try to manhandle the body first then I have no idea what next. Really just don’t want my tires to rub. I can deal with the lean at a later date. This “done
bronco” is slowing going down the rabbit hole.

 

[R1bit]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/01dX2MM99L6QXfiZtL452H4wg

 

[DirtDonk]

Easy to tell what's been installed.
If the body bushings are 3/4" tall, they're stock height. If they're anything over that, or have additional spacers on top, they have a lift installed.

Paul

 

[armynavy17]

265/75r15. I have no idea if the bushings had a lift. I have a brand new set of stock height I ordered and never used. Seem to be stock piling parts. Lol. It definitely has the Bronco lean so maybe the c bushings… going to try to manhandle the body first then I have no idea what next. Really just don’t want my tires to rub. I can deal with the lean at a later date. This “done
bronco” is slowing going down the rabbit hole.

Have you measured the backspacing on all 4 rims?

I have a spare that looks identical to the rest, but the backspacing is significantly different. I don't remember the numbers between the two.

 

[DirtDonk]

Good call. Seen that happen many a time on Broncos sold, or when buying used wheels. And probably too, when having wheels worked on...

Paul

 

[m_m70]

it had all new Tom’s off-road stock suspension but I went ahead and changed the leaf springs at my mechanics suggestion.

what reason did your mechanic give you to make you swap out new leaf springs for new leaf springs??

Today when I picked it up there was zero change if anything slightly worse.

picked up from getting the new leafs and body bushings??

He has since suggested air shocks

I would find a new mechanic.