Reid Dana 44 knuckles

[snipes243]

So I have been toying with this idea to get a set of reid knuckle and high steer arms to put my current steering in double shear. I contacted reid asking if their knuckles are the same as the 76-77 early bronco disc knuckles. Well I got that the spindle and brakes are same, but nothing on the location on the steering arm. So does any one know if they will bolt into a 76-77 bronco axle without modifying the steering lengths?

 

[DirtDonk]

Unless they've changed something, it was always my understanding that the knuckles were '76/'77 Bronco and not one of the other disc brake versions.
In fact we bugged them a few years ago about using another style as their model, such as full size, or better yet the high-arm F150 Supercab version.
But no dice at the time.

Still, it's a fantastic product. And if you are not stuck on Ford disc brakes (like I usually am) then one of the other Dana 44 models could still work. You'd have something from say a GM product, with flat tops for high-steer arms if you want, with the standard 6-bolt spindle flanges and could use the common GM brakes.

For awhile the Bronco knuckles didn't even have the flat top I thought, but it looks like they all do now.
And even though they don't look like it in the single images from the side, if you look at the pair here, kit #8711 where the image is from an angle, you can see the outward curve of the arms. https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/s?keyword=reid+racing
Sure looks like '76/'77 EB style to me.

Paul

 

[snipes243]

Unless they've changed something, it was always my understanding that the knuckles were '76/'77 Bronco and not one of the other disc brake versions.
In fact we bugged them a few years ago about using another style as their model, such as full size, or better yet the high-arm F150 Supercab version.
But no dice at the time.

Still, it's a fantastic product. And if you are not stuck on Ford disc brakes (like I usually am) then one of the other Dana 44 models could still work. You'd have something from say a GM product, with flat tops for high-steer arms if you want, with the standard 6-bolt spindle flanges and could use the common GM brakes.

For awhile the Bronco knuckles didn't even have the flat top I thought, but it looks like they all do now.
And even though they don't look like it in the single images from the side, if you look at the pair here, kit #8711 where the image is from an angle, you can see the outward curve of the arms. https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/s?keyword=reid+racing
Sure looks like '76/'77 EB style to me.

Paul

Thank you Paul this is exactly what I need to know.

 

[BanditBronco]

While we are on this topic, I wanted to see if anyone is running non-Y link style steering? So all the new jeeps have two different mounting locations on the passenger side knuckle taking away the need for the Y link tie rod. You should be able to do this using the high steer arm on the reid knuckle. Only reason I want to go this route is to gain some room for the ram assist cylinder.

 

[Yeller]

While we are on this topic, I wanted to see if anyone is running non-Y link style steering? So all the new jeeps have two different mounting locations on the passenger side knuckle taking away the need for the Y link tie rod. You should be able to do this using the high steer arm on the reid knuckle. Only reason I want to go this route is to gain some room for the ram assist cylinder.

Mine is this way. Draglink on one side and the ram on the other. It’s a d60 but same principle. Have a pic somewhere. .......

 

[snipes243]

While we are on this topic, I wanted to see if anyone is running non-Y link style steering? So all the new jeeps have two different mounting locations on the passenger side knuckle taking away the need for the Y link tie rod. You should be able to do this using the high steer arm on the reid knuckle. Only reason I want to go this route is to gain some room for the ram assist cylinder.

You defiantly could do that, but there is some debate on here over the years, that had issues getting the steering linkage angles to line up.

But there are ways to get the ram in there it’s just really tight.

Here’s how we did mine

I’m hoping to put my drag link in double shear to help reduce the load on the steering arm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BanditBronco]

With heim joints I have see it done, I am wanting to do it with tie rod ends. I wasn't sure if there was a stock non aftermarket knuckle option that allowed for a high steer arm to be installed? So many different Dana 44 housings, hard to know what knuckles work on what, unless they all have the same BJ spacing. From what I have seen, there are more options for even an EB housing compared to a full width f150 housing.

Snipes, I definitely agree double shear on the passengers side is going to be needed sooner or later. That isn't a fun trail break for sure! Thanks for the pictures. Pretty wild track bar mount on the axle, that's a good way to get it over past the wedges on an eb housing. Nice simple ram mount as well.

 

[Yeller]

all GM, Dodge, Geep, Ford D44's pre 1992 have the same ball joint spacing as long as they are open knuckle, I.E. you can see the ujoint.

I'm really trying to make a cordial statement about double shear on steering, so please don't be offended, I'm just posing a simple statement and a question based on a lifetime of building the most abused offroad equipment on the planet. If your afraid of having issues with single shear on your heim joints have any of you broken the stud on your tie rod ends? I'm not saying separated the ball from the housing, I mean sheared them off? the 3/4 bolt is larger to equal size depending on which TRE you are using. IF you manage to have a problem and create a double shear where did that weak spot move to? Can you cobble a field patch to fix that? think about it.....

one more jab at double shear, don't go pull your trailer around, you guessed it, single sheer........ Even the king pin on a semi is single shear......

However it is your build build it like you’d like, nothing wrong with double shear it just is not necessary

 

[BanditBronco]

all GM, Dodge, Geep, Ford D44's pre 1992 have the same ball joint spacing as long as they are open knuckle, I.E. you can see the ujoint.

I'm really trying to make a cordial statement about double shear on steering, so please don't be offended, I'm just posing a simple statement and a question based on a lifetime of building the most abused offroad equipment on the planet. If your afraid of having issues with single shear on your heim joints have any of you broken the stud on your tie rod ends? I'm not saying separated the ball from the housing, I mean sheared them off? the 3/4 bolt is larger to equal size depending on which TRE you are using. IF you manage to have a problem and create a double shear where did that weak spot move to? Can you cobble a field patch to fix that? think about it.....

one more jab at double shear, don't go pull your trailer around, you guessed it, single sheer........ Even the king pin on a semi is single shear......

Yeller I don't think anyone here needs you to tread that lightly, most know your knowledge base, if they don't, that can look it up haha! I would say I understand the load characteristics fairly well, my question to you would be; Using Snipes setup as an example, I understand you aren't going to shear the bolt holding everything together, but I was thinking removing load from the knuckle arm is a good thing. I would think you would crack the knuckle first. That is the failure I was thinking of. I don't think I have actually seen it in real life, have you? Do you need to worry about cracking the arm on the knuckle?

 

[Yeller]

Yeller I don't think anyone here needs you to tread that lightly, most know your knowledge base, if they don't, that can look it up haha! I would say I understand the load characteristics fairly well, my question to you would be; Using Snipes setup as an example, I understand you aren't going to shear the bolt holding everything together, but I was thinking removing load from the knuckle arm is a good thing. I would think you would crack the knuckle first. That is the failure I was thinking of. I don't think I have actually seen it in real life, have you? Do you need to worry about cracking the arm on the knuckle?

Thanks Bandit, I just really try to not be "that guy" LOL

the only issues I've ever had with Reid knuckles something needed to break. it still wiped out the housing.

I have welded the high steer arm to the knuckle and welded gussets between the high steer and low steer arms on both Reid and stock knuckles both D44 and D60. Used to todo all of them prior to aftermarket knuckles being available, even if high steer was not being used.

A side note about Reid knuckles. If you are running hard enough, or running large tires and regularly wearing out ball joints Reid's help with that tremendously, the stock knuckles flex enough to wipe out the ball joints. On the racers that we used D44's on that was a huge improvement, we were going through ball joints after 2-3 events, after going to Reid's we were getting several season's out of them. We had high hopes that they would do the same for D60 but they do not, the upper on those gets sloppy quick with hard use, 40"+ sticky tires full of water or KOH type running, the abuse is tremendous on all of the parts.

 

[snipes243]

yeller is correct I have not had any of my 3/4" bolts. But I have bent a bolt and elongated the holes on steering arm.

Its important to separate a full hydro (double ended ram system) from a draglink system. On the double ended ram all the force is horizontal in what we will say is the X direction. With the draglink setup you have a vector (angle) force AKA both an X and y component. I started drawing the diagrams up but I didn't want to nerd out to much. So the double shear would help mange the additional forces, and reduce hole elongation. Is it necessary absolutely not will it help potentially.

Honestly the most I'm worried about is actually the knuckle arm cracking and elongating the hole. These are 50 year old steering knuckles so something to thing about.

Also its great to talk some actual tech, So thanks for the help and comments

 

[markw]

We use the Reid knuckles on the race Bronco. High steer with double sheer mostly to improve parallel in the components.
With the high pinion D44 we never found a way to mount the ram assist. Also went with 6 hole spindles and Chevy brakes. They are much lighter and have more options for brake pads.


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[Yeller]

To snipes243’s point any spacers you are using must be welded to the knuckle or high steer arm. Otherwise you do run the risk of bending the bolt and or damaging the hole. On the high steer arm I always try to drill the hole out and sleeve the hole with a 3/16” wall tube welded in for the misalignment spacer, the knuckle doesn’t have enough meat to do that. Also 5/8 bolts will bend if not supported all the way to the joint. Also high misalignment spacers add a lot of leverage to the hole and arm, they need welded to the arm to increase that bearing surface and reduce the leverage on the bolt.

Same welding procedure applies to pitman arms as well. I’ve made a bunch of pitman arms too, if someone wants to know how start a thread.

And of course if you are not comfortable that you could weld on life safety devices DO NOT do anything that I’m putting out there, please. That will be my PSA for the day

 

[Broncobowsher]

all GM, Dodge, Geep, Ford D44's pre 1992 have the same ball joint spacing as long as they are open knuckle, I.E. you can see the ujoint.
...

I thought the exception to that was the Ford TTB? There is something funky about that knuckle where it can't be used on a beam axle. Otherwise disk brakes would be so much easier.

 

[Yeller]

I thought the exception to that was the Ford TTB? There is something funky about that knuckle where it can't be used on a beam axle. Otherwise disk brakes would be so much easier.

Yes everything is special about TTB in any of its renditions. There are some parts that cross over but the knuckles definitely do not

 

[Yeller]

Went and dug up my build thread and found a pic that might help. If the bronco was closer I’d just go take a few pics

 

[snipes243]

Thanks Bandit, I just really try to not be "that guy" LOL

the only issues I've ever had with Reid knuckles something needed to break. it still wiped out the housing.

I have welded the high steer arm to the knuckle and welded gussets between the high steer and low steer arms on both Reid and stock knuckles both D44 and D60. Used to todo all of them prior to aftermarket knuckles being available, even if high steer was not being used.

A side note about Reid knuckles. If you are running hard enough, or running large tires and regularly wearing out ball joints Reid's help with that tremendously, the stock knuckles flex enough to wipe out the ball joints. On the racers that we used D44's on that was a huge improvement, we were going through ball joints after 2-3 events, after going to Reid's we were getting several season's out of them. We had high hopes that they would do the same for D60 but they do not, the upper on those gets sloppy quick with hard use, 40"+ sticky tires full of water or KOH type running, the abuse is tremendous on all of the parts.

Side note did you see difference in ball joint brands when you were racing?

 

[Yeller]

Not really, but didn’t get a lot of options or opportunity to try, a Spicer distributor was one of our sponsors. I have tried everything on D60 ball joints and the best were Napa Gold Series, no idea who makes them for them, my assumption was Spicer