Request for more EFI advice....

[tx_bronco]

OK, so, I've decided to put in EFI for my '72 Bronco with a 302. Spent a few hours reading a lot of stuff I don't necessarily understand (a lot from Ryan's site). Decided it was best to have someone else do it (I'm a coward as I don't want to spend a lot of time/money and still screw it up). So, my question is this:

Which EFI to buy? I see that the Mass-Flo system from Quality Roadsters is advertised on Ryan's site. I *assume* this means it's a good product? One that will work well on my '72 bronc? I've kind of shied away from pulling parts off another vehicle as I'm reasonably sure I'd screw it up. Kits seem to work best for me as, in theory, they should have everything I need. I guess I'm willing to pay a little more for piece of mind. So, with that in mind, is the Quality Roadsters Mass-Flo kit a good fit, or would ya'll recommend a different one?

Another question: I've read that wiring is a major concern in an EFI swap and that Ryan sells a harness made special for EB's. Does this mean I should scrap the harness that comes with the kit from Quality Roadster's and buy/use Ryan's?

I've also read that I'll need a distributer from an 86-93 Mustang. correct? And an ignition coil from a 86-93 mustang? Also correct?

Am I missing anything else?

 

[bannind]

I would have to question the $-to-value that you would get from purchasing the system from any vendor. I can fully understand the desire to purchase a all-in-one system, but I guess I just choke at spending $2500 on a fuel delivery system. If you are hell bent and determined to get something already setup - I would suggest buying a late model explorer 5.0 from wrecking yard or recycler. You can pick up a 5.0 in various conditions for less than $1000. You can then drop it off to have it rebuilt if you think it needs it and get it back for less than you would have spent on the other aftermarket systems.

I do understand your desire to just purchase an all-in-one package, but I just think the funds could be better spent in other ways.

Just my 2 copper pieces on the subject

dan

 

[Steve]

Howell makes a complete excellent TBI kit for $1200. It's a true closed loop system that's calibrated to your specific engine and vehicle.

 

[Sabas]

I did my myself, with the help of a buddy. My suggestion is to go slow & learn what the sensors control. That way if 1 goes out on the trail, you will know what to replace. I carry 1 spare of everything. My view is that if I break down in the boonies, I can fix it. Just take your time to understand the EFI system. Just my opinion.
Sabas

 

[Socal Tom]

OK, so, I've decided to put in EFI for my '72 Bronco with a 302. Spent a few hours reading a lot of stuff I don't necessarily understand (a lot from Ryan's site). Decided it was best to have someone else do it (I'm a coward as I don't want to spend a lot of time/money and still screw it up). So, my question is this:

Which EFI to buy? I see that the Mass-Flo system from Quality Roadsters is advertised on Ryan's site. I *assume* this means it's a good product? One that will work well on my '72 bronc? I've kind of shied away from pulling parts off another vehicle as I'm reasonably sure I'd screw it up. Kits seem to work best for me as, in theory, they should have everything I need. I guess I'm willing to pay a little more for piece of mind. So, with that in mind, is the Quality Roadsters Mass-Flo kit a good fit, or would ya'll recommend a different one?

Another question: I've read that wiring is a major concern in an EFI swap and that Ryan sells a harness made special for EB's. Does this mean I should scrap the harness that comes with the kit from Quality Roadster's and buy/use Ryan's?

I've also read that I'll need a distributer from an 86-93 Mustang. correct? And an ignition coil from a 86-93 mustang? Also correct?

Am I missing anything else?

Check out my site www.teamslick.net/SEFI.htm

You have 3 main choices
Take it from a Junk yard ford ( ala ford fuel injection.com)
Get a GM style retrofit ( howell, turbo city)
Get an after market setup ( holley, edelbrock)

Ryan covers why to use the ford SEFI
The GM stuff has spare parts anywhere and retrofits pretty easy
I've heard that getting the aftermarket stuff dialed in can be tough.

Ryan's harness is only for the EFI part of the harness, you still keep the rest of the harness. It does make the install a lot easier.
Tom

 

[b4opec]

Agree with Saba

I converted my '74 about 2 months ago. I don't know why I didn't do it 5 years ago. The car is now hands down my daily driver and I love it that much more. I agree with Saba- try to do at least some of it yourself to gain understanding of the EFI system. I did it all myself and purchased Ryan's harness which was the best $525 (or whatever it was) that I could have spent. It makes the install so clean regardless of the fact it works so well. I bought an entire FI setup off a wrecked 91 mustang, and took ALL the parts that were there whether I needed them or not. turns out, I didn't need all that much- a few of the sensors, intakes, fuel rails, injectors and computer.

I spent about a month and a half researching it all, and bought two books on ford fuel injection. The first was the one on summitracing, the second was on how to build and modify 5.0's. The first one was pretty technical but was good cause it explained everything thoroughly. The second book takes what you learned (or tried to learn) and tells you where to go from there: performance. Your fuel delivery should be well thought out. I did mine out of braided stainless. It cost a bit more--not much--but looks fantastic.

Also, unless you have someone local that works on modified old broncos, don't expect your local repair shops to give much of a sh** about your project. Though it's basically a mustang they won't treat it that way. And the fact you brought your pretty advanced project to them kinda tells them you're a chump anyway- "what, can't fix it yourself?" I know cause I bought a new harmonic damper, which has timing marks set to the 10 or 11 o'clock position on the front, not the 2 o'clock like our stock setup. So when I set TDC I was really setting it nearly 90 degrees advance. I figured it out and wound up putting a tape on the beautifully etched damper I just bought Point is, no one cared to help me with that one. I was worried about driving it around on first start with advanced timing.

Lastly, if you know all the parts you acquired were working before you got them, you have to take the leap of faith that they'll work again. I did, and let me tell you, when I first primed the fuel system...and then figured out my timing was advance waay too much...the thing started right up. I nearly fell over the sound was so nice.

Good luck.

 

[ponycarlover]

I have heard really good things about the edelbrock system, the handheld tuner that comes with it allows you to store 3 custom preset tuning settings. I was thinking about doing this swap but havent decided for sure, it would be nice having a mpg, towing/trail, performance tuning all at the push of a button. PLUS It comes with a bunch of fun stuff like msd for just a small amount over Quality Roadsters setup

 

[mxpaz]

Howell makes a complete excellent TBI kit for $1200. It's a true closed loop system that's calibrated to your specific engine and vehicle.

My buddy put this on his and it works great. I vote for this.

 

[stock74]

I just finished converting my bronco to the '89-'93 mass air mustang efi system. I did all of the work myself. I did not have the money to spend on ryan's harness so instead I rebuilt/reworked the original mustang harness. Since I had to build the harness myself rather then buying ryan's the conversion took me longer and I swapped out the cam for a brand new '95 cobra r cam from ford racing so that I would have a 351W/H.O. firing order. The conversion was a bit pricey since I wanted to replace the sensors and buy a few other items, but well worth it because my 302 was in good condition but the bearings were starting to go so luckily I caught this problem in time to save the engine. I did alot of research before doing this conversion and have found it to be well worth the money and wish I could have done it sooner. The engine runs and performs a ton better then it did before. I believe the ford/mustang conversion with all or mostly all new parts and ryan's harness are the best way to go IMHO. There are plenty of articles that talk about the advantages of this system. Though I am not trying to knock the aftermarket systems but just do your research first. Also I found that doing the conversion myself gave me alot better understanding of how everything works on that efi system so in that sense it helps to do the work yourself. I hope that helps.

 

[RajinCajun]

I agree with several of the folks below, if you have any mechanical/electrical knowledge..do it yourself. I installed a 91 Stang EFI onto an 87 pick-up 302 that I had. There is more than enough information available to use the stock harness, but it does take some time... I have more time than $$.. I plan to eventually upgrade the harness to a custom built one, mainly for the look, and to get rid of some of the extra wires..(probably will never happen) I figured I wanted to save the $$ and know how the system worked and where everything was..and to be able to say "I" did the work... I have bought several tools and other upgrade parts with the extra $$ I was planning to spend on a harness..I had the money ready, but it only took me a full day of tracing wires once I got everthing in place... Not a bad hourly rate...one day of work for $500+. It would have went faster but my harness had some colors that matched the 88-89 and some that matched the 90-91(don't quote me in the exact years..I just know I had to tracke wires to the puter for exact color..then figure out where it went.) I only used 12 wires from the old harness... But I still need to add in the O2 sensor stuff for fuel economy mainly..but it runs great without them for now..
Good luck..

 

[sixtysick]

what to do to the mustang harness

Ok, so I have an entire setup out of a 89 mustang.

what on the stock ecm harness from the mustang do I need to modify to make this engine work in my 66?

Regards,
SS

 

[SaddleUp]

Ok, so I have an entire setup out of a 89 mustang.

what on the stock ecm harness from the mustang do I need to modify to make this engine work in my 66?

Regards,
SS

I would get the Charles Probst - Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control book. This goes for anyone thinking about the Ford EFI system. It does a thorough job of explaining what each sensor is for and how they work together. The troubleshooting section is a lifesaver as well since it describes how to test each sensor to be sure it is working right along with the wiring leading up to it. For someone that is modifying their own harness then the wiring diagrams in the back are extremely useful. (On my original 5.0 conversion I used them entirely to run the wiring) As far as modifying the Mustang harness I think it is pretty much complete and therefore pretty much just needs to be plugged in and then connected into the stock harness. (3 or 4 wires I think) The only reasons to modify it that I am aware of would be for the location of the ECM since it may not match up length wise, and the other is to add in resistors that will allow the emission stuff to be eliminated without the check engine light coming on. The only emission part that really needs the resistors if it is removed is the EGR valve since the ECM needs to know whether it is closed or not. I.E. The purge cannistor & Tab/Tad can be removed and will cause the light to come on but will not effect the way it runs. Resistors can be used to trick the ecm into thinking they are there so the light stays off.

Going back to the original question my suggestion would be to get the book I mentioned above. Then dive right in. Read the entire book first, gather up the parts you think you will need, then go for it. Once you are finished installing it and get it fired up you will have lost all fear of it and will know the system pretty well. Wiring is critical but we are only talking about 40 wires or so and there are diagrams available to check every one of them (both in the book above and at Ryan's site). The most complicated it can be is to cut the ecm plug close to the ecm and then to entirely run new wires from each pin. Very tedious (A couple of days worth) at best but following the diagrams pays off when it is started. (I did mine this way to eliminate extra wiring in mine but it was a Grand Marquis harness which isn't as clean as the Mustang one) The least complicated would be to get Ryan's harness and then just plug it in. Figure a couple of hours to figure out where each item plugs in and to tie it into the original harness. I assume he has instructions so it may be even easier than that.

 

[Socal Tom]

Ok, so I have an entire setup out of a 89 mustang.

what on the stock ecm harness from the mustang do I need to modify to make this engine work in my 66?

Regards,
SS

Getting the Probst book is a good suggestion. You will also want the EVTM ( electrical vacuum and trouble shooting manual) for the 89 mustang.
Until then read my webpage. www.teamslick.net. Look under early bronco tech. It's got the basics for how to do the conversion.
Tom

 

[Socal Tom]

Howell makes a complete excellent TBI kit for $1200. It's a true closed loop system that's calibrated to your specific engine and vehicle.

If you can change an intake manifold and install a stereo system you can put in SEFI, however I can understand if you want a complete kit. I second the Howell setup if you want a kit. It's based on GM parts so replacement parts are easily obtainable, and the price is pretty good. Turbo city also makes a similar setup.

I wouldn't spend money on something like the mass-flo setup or the edelbrock or holley setups. To much adjustment.

Take a look at my web page www.teamslick.net, look under early bronco tech and read up what I have on EFI conversions. I have the enough there so that you can see if your up to the task.
Tom

 

[roundhouse]

You can do it,

Id buy the whole car if you can, and just transfer everything, or at least remove everything yourself, so you can take lots of pics and draw diagrams before you remove anything.

Its time consuming, but its not difficult.
I did it in 4 weekends.
Swapping the entire engine.

I bought just the engine & controls, but if I did it again, Id get the whole car,
because if someone else removes all the stuff, they WILL break some of the connectors or something, plus when you remove it yourself you get a feel for what it does and where it goes.

the harness has a lot of unneeded wires, but i just left em and tucked them out of the way.

thw FOrd system is very sturdy and will run with ALL, every last one, of the sensors unplugged.
No other system will do this, with most if you lose, or unlug the water temp or the mass air sensor, the car will not crank,

the ford system will crank and run,with the upper intake which includes the air temp, the mass air meter, and the throttle position sensor, removed,
and 4 injectors removed and laying on the workbench. Ive done it.

I was shocked!

 

[SaddleUp]

You can do it,

Id buy the whole car if you can, and just transfer everything, or at least remove everything yourself, so you can take lots of pics and draw diagrams before you remove anything.

Its time consuming, but its not difficult.
I did it in 4 weekends.
Swapping the entire engine.

I bought just the engine & controls, but if I did it again, Id get the whole car,
because if someone else removes all the stuff, they WILL break some of the connectors or something, plus when you remove it yourself you get a feel for what it does and where it goes.

the harness has a lot of unneeded wires, but i just left em and tucked them out of the way.

thw FOrd system is very sturdy and will run with ALL, every last one, of the sensors unplugged.
No other system will do this, with most if you lose, or unlug the water temp or the mass air sensor, the car will not crank,

the ford system will crank and run,with the upper intake which includes the air temp, the mass air meter, and the throttle position sensor, removed,
and 4 injectors removed and laying on the workbench. Ive done it.

I was shocked!

I can believe it. When my TPS went bad I unplugged it intentionally to keep the ECM from getting the wide open signal and to throw it into the default program. That enabled me to get back to the campsite where I changed it the next morning (It was one of the spare parts I actually had at the time). Actual diagnosis took about 5 minutes. Long enough to plug in the code reader (I could have just grounded the system and read the check engine light though). It came back with a high voltage reading off the TPS which I then tested with an Ohm Meter. It was showing 5 volts when it should have been under 1 volt. I unplugged it and then it fired right up.