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Shim Motor, Pivot Rear Axle Question

Dinger

Jr. Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
63
Loc.
Tallahassee
Am converting to 2-wheel drive (I know, I know... you wouldn't... ;) Doing it anyway, and looking for best practices to shim motor/pivot rear axle to make driveshaft as direct/straight as possible. Assuming this is more difficult than just shimming, right? Probably got some hood clearance issues...

Anyway, all your expert insights are always welcomed!

Cheers all,
B
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,919
If you are going to a 2wd tranny with a slip fit and a single u-joint then you don't want it straight,
In fact you want the two opposing angles to cancel each other out by adding up to 180 degrees
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
51,616
Agreed. I'd skip the engine shimming and just design the driveshaft and pinion angle around each other. Unless something in the length just doesn't compute, I think that would work.

Is this going to be a stock suspension height? Lowered or lifted?
That too can make a difference on how easy, or hard it is to set up.

Paul
 

PaveBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
914
Gonna have to give us a reason for the 2 wheel drive mod. Sounds interesting. What are you doing with the front set up?. IFS? straight?, or just disconnecting the driveshaft sort of thing. You can use wedged shims under the springs to change the rear angle.
 
OP
OP
D

Dinger

Jr. Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
63
Loc.
Tallahassee
Hey all thanks for the feedback. Gotta school me up on not trying to align the motor with the rear axle; I thought this was optimal. As far as my build goes, I am omitting the transfer case and going with a straight axle so it is a true 2-wheel drive.

As for the "why" (as in why in the hell would someone do this), this is my second EB. And, now that I am older, I have a much better idea of what I want. For starters I have always been a fan of the 2wd racing baja broncos from way back. But, more importantly, I know how I want to use my EB now, and how I want it to ride. So, as a DD that will literally never see more than a light camping trail, I want to make a pretty fast, pretty (relatively) light sleeper that has high level road handling (for an EB) ability. Call it a North Florida cruiser with spunk.

With that said, anyone want to buy a T-20 and a couple short axles, or do you know someone that has an axle stretcher??? :)

Thanks again all. I look forward to learning more about the axle angle.
 

66broncoCT

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
323
Loc.
Torrington, CT
If you click the picture it open up Steve's supermotors page. There's a lengthy description under the picture. If you need to see more of the picture click it and it will open up bigger.
 

Steve83

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,359
Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
If you're using a phone, you have to click the TEXT link below the thumbnail - not the thumbnail itself. That only works on real computers (which are better for viewing that anyway, on a fullsize monitor).
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
51,616
...Gotta school me up on not trying to align the motor with the rear axle; I thought this was optimal.

Nope. Not necessary. Broncos didn't come that way from the factory, so it's not necessary after your change.
As Steve's descriptions are showing I assume (although I admit to not understanding, or read all of it myself%)) there is even a minimal angle required. And it's not zero.
So there is always supposed to be at least some (1/2° I believe?) angle to let the joints move and keep the grease and needle bearings happy.

Not many vehicles have a really straight shot between the crankshaft and the rear pinion. Low slung cars will be close, but still have that offset to keep the u-joints working over the long term.
And your rear pinion is in constant motion anyway, not including suspension movement. It rises under load and falls under coasting situations. By a large amount sometimes.

On a single-cardan style shaft (one single u-joint at each end) you "could" try to get it close, but it's not needed as there is quite a bit of leeway. Look under any truck, old or new and you'll see the angles that different manufacturers are choosing to use.
While you can have a bit of angle to the shaft, both joints should be at the same relative angle to the shaft (within a couple of degrees of each other I think?) under at least it's neutral condition.
By that I mean that the rear output shaft of the trans, and the rear input (pinion) shaft of the diff need to be very close to parallel to each other, but their height can be offset, which puts the driveshaft at an angle between the two.

A double-cardan shaft (where the front/upper joint is a double-joint assembly and the rear is still a single joint) can have the shaft at an even steeper angle in regard to the upper joints and the trans and diff angled no longer have to be parallel. In cases like that (such as with the stock Bronco shaft) your output shaft can be many degrees off of the centerline of the driveshaft, but the rear pinion angle should be 1 to 2 degrees down-angle from the centerline of the driveshaft. This allows for the up and down motion of the pinion ("axle wrap" or "pinion climb")
This is the earliest known version of a Constant Velocity joint.

Basically, no Bronco came from the factory with a straight shot from the transfer case to the rear axle, so even after changing to 2wd, yours doesn't need to either.
And all that is not to take away from reading Steve's/Ford's technical diagrams and descriptions. Still good to know the low down and dirty technical details.

Paul
 

.94 OR

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,209
Loc.
Willamette Valley, OR
Used to have this discussion with a boss I had over the PTO shaft for the tractor tiller. He would adjust everything so it was perfectly straight. After replacing the U-joints in the shaft I would mis-align them. It would last all season. Next season he would mount the tiller and insist it stay straight. I would replace and mis-align.

Should be obvious, but the U-joints need to be inline with each other on both ends of the shaft.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
51,616
...Should be obvious, but the U-joints need to be inline with each other on both ends of the shaft.

Which is something you always need to check when getting a new, or newly refurbished shaft. I've picked up two shafts from two different vendors that were certainly in the business long enough to know better (anything over two days and you should know better!) that were out of phase.
I always lay the shaft on the counter before leaving to make sure the joints align.

Paul
 
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