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speed density to maf?

pullnpray

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
64
Looking at getting a 351 speed density i have always been a hp freak.. my diesel is over 650 lol. I know the maf's accept mods better then speed density motors or so i heard.

So the question in order to turn a speed density into a maf i will need a maf ECC(A9L??)it and the maf wiring harness.... also i belive there is some pins that will need to be swapped from the main engine harness also.. seems kinda easy anything else im forgetting?
If you guys have a link that i could read more about this swap that would be awesome thanks
 

Viperwolf1

Contributor
electron whisperer
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
24,347
It depends on the speed density system you're starting with. It isn't a truck SD with batch fire is it?
 
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pullnpray

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
64
Thanks for the info and links. Ill keep researching the subject. Thanks again
 

00gyrhed

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,428
WOW once I posted this I saw I had rambling along for quite some time. Sorry.

I started by putting an '87 MA 305 Firebird TPI on a 350 in a 51 truck in 1989 before you could even find pin out diagrams easily. I have fuel injected all of my old car projects since then and modified every new vehicle since then as well. Depending upon how good you are with wiring, you can simply get the A9 pin out diagram and trace everything back to the right pin in your harness. Even the batch fire can be fixed. Also dependant upon your individual skills it "might" be cheaper/easier to go that route or it will be FAR easier to just by a harness thats all base don you. If a pile of wires scares you go by a harness. For me I would pull the plug on my DA1 and make sure it fit my A9 and go.

However, why do you feel the A9 will be required. I have seen countless things on the internet about how if you make "any" mods the computer will not be able to run the engine. That simply isn't true. Just like you have to change the cam on an old 302 to the same firing order as the HO. NOT TRUE. There are some quirks but the SD computer when modifing the engine but it will often work through them. I have the original 71 302 in my bronco with the SD original firing order, RV cam, headers, and supersingle exhaust. When I got it it had a 4BB holley carb and a single plane high rise manifold. No doubt the builder had read Hot Rod Magazine and not 4WD. :) It ran like a bat out of hell (at least for a 302 in a bronco) but lacked low end torque and it was a real pain to drive offroad. You basically had to use the granny in the NP435 everytime you started off. I bought my SD system for an 87 Mustang on ebay for less than I sold the carb on ebay. The common wisdom was that the computer wouldn't run the engine. Well if you put the computer on it and started it and didn't keep messing with it you would believe the common wisdom, but once all the connections with high voltage drop across them were fixed, the bad brand new sensors were replaced, and the engine warmed up it ran like a top. The SD EFI gave me enough low end torque to where I rarely use the granny anymore and I gained top end as well.

I have had several modified speed density systems and what I have found is that the computewr tends to run the modifications just fine as long as you do not put a cam in there that decreases the vacuum signal at idle. An RV cam will ususally give you more vacuum, headers and other mods can alter that signal was well but the cam is the big issue. Dont know why you would want anything but a good ow end torque cam in a Bronco anyway. I feel no need to run over 85 and nearly every cam on the market these days will let your engine do that unless you have ultra low gearing in place to make up for the fact that you put the wrong cam in. :)

What does happen with all the altered SD systems I have dealt with is that the run cold functions of the computer are really out of whack and it might takes months for the computer to build tables to run you engine cold but it does eventually do it. Unfortunaetely if you disconnect the battery you get to start all over. I can hook my broncos computer up to a seperate battery if I have to disconnect the battery for some reason. You basically have to sit there in the truck and start it and let it die start it again over and over when ever you have the time. As you are doing this the engine warms up and once the computer gets out of cold start/run mode it will ususally be just fine unless you put in a lopey cam. I had my bronco to where I could walk out of my deer camp on a 15 degree morning turn the key and it would start and then I would go back in and get ready have some coffee and it would idle until it got warmed up. I had to replace the intake air sensor and I disconnected the computer from the battery so the computer could start from scracth. That was 6 months ago and I havent been driving it enough so I still have to resart it once or twice before it warms up, but it runs fine once warm and alos while driving cold, it just hasn't completely figured out how to idle COLD but I kinow it will eventually because it and others have before.

Ther is no doubt that the SD systems as Ford designed it has issues if you change the cam signal such that vacuum decreases (high lift LONG duration), it isn't a given that the SD computer will not be able to deal with an RV style cam that increases the vacuum system (high lift SHORT duration). My dad had a full size 351 that when he bought it had the catalytic converted removed headers, duals and an RV cam. THe smog pump had bee disconnected as well. It ran like a stripped a$$ ape. He however lived in a TX county that required pollution inspections and part of the deal was that the guy had to put everything back to stock (he had kept everything) He did and my father used it for 10 years and over 200K miles on it, but although it ran jsut fine it was not the power house it was before with those changes, and it used the exact same computer.

If I had the time I would figure out if they can how to make the Chevy distributor controls on thier TPI computer run the Ford SB. Reasons the 92 corvette computer is SD and water proof and heat resistant. It was designed to be placed in the engine compartment. It can be easily and cheaply altered by replceing the chip, it has a knock sensor so you get the most out of your engin depedant upon the fuel that is being used. The only draw back is that it is batch fired so it idles a little different than SFI but thats hardly noticeable. The beauty of it is the heat resistant, water proof computers are a dime a dozen becaus GM used them on 6s anf 4s and all you have to do is change the chip to run an 8. You call up a chip guy and tell him everything about you vehicle. CAM spec, gearing, wieght, displacement, they way you want to use it etc. and a week or so later the chip arrives you plug it in and never ever deal with alkl the extra crap that goes along with MA.

Just like the people that say you cant run the old firing order I believe that many of the so called reasons you cant do it come from other issues that are not being addresses like bad connections and sensors. My old engine with the old firing order idles better than any carb engine I have ever owned (since 1975) but it does not idle as good as the Mustngs where you cant even tell it running. But who cares It still even idles better that a Chevy TPI which is batch fired.

I firmly beive that many people try to use SD and give up due to bad connections, bad sensors or are simply put out by the cold start/run issues. Ford SD systems can not deal with longer duration cams than stock so the mustang crowd says you cant alter the engine. We tend to go the other way and shorten duration to get low end torque and the Ford system may be able to run that quite well. My theory when I did mine was these internet experts are often wrong I will give it a shot because I already have it, and its not gonna cost anymore for me to fix it change it later if I do not like it.

I will also add that I corrected a lot of idle issues by taking apart the 10 pin connectors on the mustang harness and soldering and shrink wrapping them. The engine went from a rough idle that almost had me convinced the MA guys or the firing order guy were right and I found out neither were.
 

broncosbybart

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Messages
2,644
So, I have to ask. If you want a ton of HP, I'm assuming it will be a street truck and not a friendly daily driver type thing. Why not run a carb?
 

00gyrhed

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,428
before I get flamed for being an idiot I have run and modified both chevy and ford SD and MA systems. One of the resaons I really prefer the SD sytem offroad is the way Checy, my first offraod system, handled the cleaning of the element on the early TPI. I do not know how ford does it or if chevy still does, but when you went into an idle mode the computer would drop into a burn off mode to clean the wire element in the MAF sensor. IT would basically heat it up cherry red to burn off dirt. Problem was if you pulled you 350 CJ5 up to an obstacle and came to a stop right on the edge than then eased over the side of a drop without opening the throttle the element would fall off when you hit the bottom of the obstacle because it was still in burn off mode. Also back then you were replacing them pretty regular if you used it offraod much. During my learning period SD was the way to go and the old SB chevy crowd is engrained in SD just due to its simplicity, but some of them even run engines with O2 sensores so I am not saying that makes them right. :) just two different crowds due to the problems with lopey cams.
 

Ourobos

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
1,225
Loc.
Big Island Hawaii
Although they don't accept mods as nicely, especially camshafts, the SD will actually make more HP stock for stock than the MAF.
 
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pullnpray

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
64
Thanks for the info guys, whe. I talk about hp range im shooting for 450ish, my main concern is i want to run a 408/427 stroker kit to drop the power and torque lower kind of worried it will effect the vacuum.. i will go over to the fullsize and poke around
 
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pullnpray

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
64
So, I have to ask. If you want a ton of HP, I'm assuming it will be a street truck and not a friendly daily driver type thing. Why not run a carb?

I will admit im not a extream off roader, i doubt it will ever see crazy obstacles lile rocks ect. That being said i like to drive around the mountains and havr a solid hunting rig, my 2bbl 289 runs awesome on most the trails i go on.. when it super cold its kinda a pain but nothing compared to my stroked 347 i had in my cougar, i just feel for driveablity/headaches its worth the extra headaches and money to throw efi in it
 

00gyrhed

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,428
Hes a dinosaur. EFI is easier and better in the long run. Yes I guy that is really GOOD with carbs can tune one to make more HP than a stock EFI. But a guy that is really good can program and tune EFI will run circles arround any carb. Cold starts and altitude issues go away. I put my first EFI on my 55 chevy back in the 80s and havent run a carb since and never will. Its funny carb issues are harder to deal with than EFI issues, I am 54 years old, I grew up on Carbs, Use to run nothing but quadrojects on everything I owned, had every jet, hangar, metering rod, and accerator pump that may have been ever made for the silly things. use to tune all of my friends chevys and even managed to get a QJ on a ford or two. I loved them and understood them as the most complicated carb out there. They were despised by most people and taken off and thrown away for a Holly by those that didnt understand it. QJ was a much better carb but you had to actually understant it not just go change a jet size. EFI is like that, you have to understand it. But you don't have to be an expert becaus eit will tell you what is wrong. You just need to know a few common since type issues. I will NEVER GO BACK. Maybe it becasue I put an 87 TPI on my chevy in 88 without any wiring diagrams. Just pulled the entire harness out of a wrecked TA and started tracing wires. I may even still have the pinout diagram I made. Internet has made all that information easily accessible. Back then you ask someone that had been to GM for training and they looked at ou like you were carzy for even attempting such a thing.
 

G's Baja Bronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
1,362
Loc.
Sunny SO CAL
we pulled the computer and harness from a 89 gt 5.0l stang, got the 24 lb injectors and matching MAF, upper and lower gt40 intakes and it works like a charm, 351w with baja beast cam.
 
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