Spray thermal insulation / Sound deadening?

[broncobuddha]

Hello all,

Getting to be about that time to put the top on the bronco for the winter. My top has no headliner at all.

So, 1: I would like to kill the tinniness and the flexing of the top when it's on AND 2: I would like to put some time of thermal barrier in it to keep the heat in.

I also have bare floors etc as well, so I know that's another area to address. But since the top is currently off I figured it might be easier to do this while it's off.

Are there any decent (understanding one that does both will not do either exceptionally well) combination spray on applications that could help with sound and heat?

I was thinking just a couple of squares of a dynamat or similar would at least deaden the majority of the sound and then perhaps spray a thermal barrier of some sort?

What's everyone using here?

Thanks!

 

[Broncobowsher]

The tinnyness can be attacked in 2 different ways. The most common is mass. Dynamat type material. The other approach that is usually overlooked is stiffness. I once put a patch of Betabrace on the roof to stiffen it up. Took care of the oil canning as well. It's like Dynamat in that it comes in a sheet, but it is a heat cure epoxy with a fiber(glass?) mesh instead of foil.

I don't know of any good spray on insulation. Nothing spray on is anywhere near what a basic air gapped headliner will do. Maybe spray foam? But that has plenty of issues on its own. A layer if thinsulate in the air gap of a regular headliner can give it a boost.

There is a lot of surface area. Most any full coverage treatment will end up adding a lot of mass. At the top of the roof isn't a great place to add mass.

 

[broncobuddha]

That's why I was thinking of spray foam so as not to add weight.

Again I do not have any type of headliner. It's just bare(painted) metal.

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[Broncobowsher]

Just because you don't currently have a headliner doesn't mean you can't add one.

 

[broncobuddha]

True, but I don't even know if the cross braces are good. I'll have to check.

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[jeffncs]

I’ve read about using spray foam in vehicles. General consensus was to not use the stuff you buy at HD or Lowe’s. That stuff traps water/moisture and promotes rust.

The stuff used by car many is a different compound and seals out moisture.

Personally, I’d rock some custom fit Dynamat or Kilmat. I have the rubberized mat along with a closed cell mat. The combo offers sound deadening and thermal insulation. Works great!

 

[gnpenning]

Here's a option.

Top rebuild; new ribs, insulation & headliner

Here's my first attempt at adding pic's..hope it works! Welded in some new ribs, clean & paint, 1/2" semi-ridgid insulation board, 1/4" bubble insulation, fit lightweight panel board for new headliner, glue headliner fabric to new panels. Should be much quieter, and sure looks better!

classicbroncos.com

 

[broncobuddha]

I’ve read about using spray foam in vehicles. General consensus was to not use the stuff you buy at HD or Lowe’s. That stuff traps water/moisture and promotes rust.

The stuff used by car many is a different compound and seals out moisture.

Personally, I’d rock some custom fit Dynamat or Kilmat. I have the rubberized mat along with a closed cell mat. The combo offers sound deadening and thermal insulation. Works great!

Jeff, you got any pics?

Did you completely cover the inside of the top? I heard for some sound deadening, you really only need a piece or two of the dynamat type stuff. Should get rid of the tin sound. I had heard that most items like dynamat or kilmat aren't necessarily good for thermal insulation?

 

[Broncobowsher]

True, but I don't even know if the cross braces are good. I'll have to check.

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If you are lacking cross braces you will never cure the roof oil canning.

 

[broncobuddha]

If you are lacking cross braces you will never cure the roof oil canning.

I checked and the cross braces are there and seem in decent shape.

 

[jeffncs]

Jeff, you got any pics?

Did you completely cover the inside of the top? I heard for some sound deadening, you really only need a piece or two of the dynamat type stuff. Should get rid of the tin sound. I had heard that most items like dynamat or kilmat aren't necessarily good for thermal insulation?

No pics. I used a 1/8” rubber “Kilmat” style mat with foil backing. I applied the closed cell insulation on top of that. I used that inside my mustang doors and floors. Works great in the convertible running a 2.5” dual exhaust with flow masters!

I would expect the rubber sheeting alone would work great for the bronco roof.

Edit to add…. I used this matting from Siles.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BLSP8JV/?tag=classicbroncos-20

 

[broncobuddha]

What type of closed cell insulation?

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[DirtDonk]

There’s always the spray on option as well. Lizard Skin makes both acoustic and thermal barrier spray on.
I’m not sure if it’s still this way, but it used to be that the minimum purchase was more than enough to do a hard top. Probably a hard top and part of the vehicle too.
Spray the acoustic dampering material directly to the metal. Then, if you want, spray the thermal barrier on top of that.
I even like the idea of putting the thermal barrier on the outside. But I don’t know what it would look like. I happen to like the smooth finish of stock paint, so I’m not sure if I’d be happy with a, most likely, textured outer coating.
But it would sure be effective.

For a headliner, you could do the stock cardboard style, or maybe one of the custom fiberglass set ups from the company that gets talked about a lot here. Can’t think of the name all of a sudden. Or something simple like a carpet material such as what comes on camper shells.
There are also a couple of really good build threads here on the forum where members have really done custom set ups with sound deadening and insulation materials.

 

[broncobuddha]

I was thinking of lizard skin Paul. I just wasn't sure if they did a thermal barrier as well but it sounds like you have to do two different ones to get that effect.

As far as the outside of my hardtop, it's already been Raptor lined. It's black and it's a textured coating and I actually like it.

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[.94 OR]

I bought a product years ago (20+) that was likely a precursor to Lizard Skin that I have used in the interior of cars. Heavy paint type product that deadens sound. Last project was an '81 Yota pickup and heat was a concern since there was no other insulation. Found this stuff and mixed it in with the sound deadener. It was cheap enough we put plenty in. Nothing scientific, but I think it helped. I even brushed it on my heater box when I rebuilt it this last spring. Red rig was my wife's '03 Escape that was too noisy from the factory.

Amazon.com

 

[Broncobowsher]

Another product you might run into is the foil coated bubble wrap (ReFlex?) You see it on all the van life/overlander van conversions. The bloggers post up that it is the greatest thing ever. Usually a post that is taken while the spray glue is still drying with the begging of like and subscribe as they try to make a living off not doing much. But if you dig deeper, find people who are really doing the life the bloggers think they are doing, the stuff isn't that well liked. Looks cool and all futuristic, easy to install, does some insulating. And on a bare steel van, I am sure it is noticable. But the real deal is running sheets of polyisocyanurate insulation. But it is rigid flat sheets. Doesn't install that well. I have a van I am setting up for weekends and have played with a bunch of stuff. The polyiso works well, used it on the floor buldup and it has a lot of insulation in a small cross section. The fat wall cavities has rock wool, good thermal insulation as well as good audio. That is the benifit of plenty of space. The ceiling was done with thinsulate. Polyiso would have been great up there, but the curves and intrusions doesn't make it a great fit. Thinsulate is used as it is good at conforming to irregularities and is lightweight (trying to keep weight off the top). All the insulation is covered. The headliner was made in 3-pieces of 1/8" chip board (not cardboard) from Home Depot. Wrapped in material. Went all fancy and put LED strip lights in the seams between the panels. OK, that was my rambling morning insulating a vehicle rant.

 

[broncobuddha]

I bought a product years ago (20+) that was likely a precursor to Lizard Skin that I have used in the interior of cars. Heavy paint type product that deadens sound. Last project was an '81 Yota pickup and heat was a concern since there was no other insulation. Found this stuff and mixed it in with the sound deadener. It was cheap enough we put plenty in. Nothing scientific, but I think it helped. I even brushed it on my heater box when I rebuilt it this last spring. Red rig was my wife's '03 Escape that was too noisy from the factory.

Amazon.com

That's not a bad idea. Maybe just toss a bag of that in lizard skin sound deadener vs buying a separate thermal coating. Hmmm.

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[Torkman66]

Lots of opinions here. I have mine. First, I would not be concerned too much about added weight. Even adding 100# would not be an issue. It sounds like you take the top off sometimes and I assume you do that with some type of pulley system or maybe a few helpers. In any case, there are so many advantages to building a solid top that weight (within reason) should not be of concern.

For me, the top will be on permanently. I added 3/8” square tubed web structure to top and then fitted insulation foam in each “opening”.

I did use the standard expanding foam inside the two stock braces. Have no concern about moisture or rust. If water or moisture ever gets in or builds up inside the top, I’ve done something very wrong. It would have to penetrate the headliner, the insulation, the foam, the paint, the primer, and 2 heavy coats of epoxy primer.
I am making my own custom headliner foundation that will be covered in by headliner material. Great opportunity to add a couple door actuated dome lights as well.

So back to the OP question. It is my opinion that you should at a minimum spray the entire inside of top with Ospho to kill any of the current rust. Then spray a couple good coats of epoxy primer. Then if you don’t want a headliner, use Monster liner or Raptor on the inside. That will quite it down a bit and provide both protection and a small bit of insulation…and it will have a much more finished look. Both products are very easy to apply by yourself.

But if you are not concerned about how it looks, then use a dynamite or Siless ($65 Amazon) to entire top. That would remove a lot (not all) of the tin canning and provide a little insulation.

Again, lots of opinions on this, these are my own personal choices after doing dozens of different rig restorations. Whatever you do will be better than doing nothing.

 

[Wild horse 75]

Lizard skin can be sanded smooth and top coated with primer and paint. So in theory you could spray the outside with a thermal barrier then sand it smooth and paint it. It does add thickness and weight though.

 

[broncobuddha]

Lots of opinions here. I have mine. First, I would not be concerned too much about added weight. Even adding 100# would not be an issue. It sounds like you take the top off sometimes and I assume you do that with some type of pulley system or maybe a few helpers. In any case, there are so many advantages to building a solid top that weight (within reason) should not be of concern.

For me, the top will be on permanently. I added 3/8” square tubed web structure to top and then fitted insulation foam in each “opening”.
View attachment 936386

I did use the standard expanding foam inside the two stock braces. Have no concern about moisture or rust. If water or moisture ever gets in or builds up inside the top, I’ve done something very wrong. It would have to penetrate the headliner, the insulation, the foam, the paint, the primer, and 2 heavy coats of epoxy primer.
I am making my own custom headliner foundation that will be covered in by headliner material. Great opportunity to add a couple door actuated dome lights as well.
View attachment 936388

So back to the OP question. It is my opinion that you should at a minimum spray the entire inside of top with Ospho to kill any of the current rust. Then spray a couple good coats of epoxy primer. Then if you don’t want a headliner, use Monster liner or Raptor on the inside. That will quite it down a bit and provide both protection and a small bit of insulation…and it will have a much more finished look. Both products are very easy to apply by yourself.

But if you are not concerned about how it looks, then use a dynamite or Siless ($65 Amazon) to entire top. That would remove a lot (not all) of the tin canning and provide a little insulation.

Again, lots of opinions on this, these are my own personal choices after doing dozens of different rig restorations. Whatever you do will be better than doing nothing.

Top and doors come off every year. Realistically the top is only on 3 months or so out of the year. It's on during the winter months, which is why I'm talking about thermal insulation as I'm trying to keep as much heat as I can inside. I've been working a lot on replacing all of my weatherstripping etc and I know I need to also do the floors as well. The top just a big can of bare metal so I'd like to insulate it.

Yes, I'd like to reduce the noise, but road noise isn't the concern it's the flexing of the top and very hollow sound it has while going down the road. So, I'd say thermal insulation is more of the goal here.

I do have a winch system to take the top off and on. I've got a taller garage so some friends and I built out a brace system where I've mounted an ATV winch. I drive under it, put a couple of lift beams in place and raise it up and it stays suspended for much of the year. Certainly makes it muck quicker and easier to remove and install.