Steering fluid to radiator and hydroboost brakes

[jlylec]

I recently upgraded my steering with a 4x4x2 box and a Saginaw pump. It works great although I probably need to weld the plate for the box from West Coast Broncos to the frame as on the first real wheeling trip it got loose on me. The other issue I had with the steering was the pump got REAL hot. I have no cooler on it, so this isn't that surprising. I have an extra core in my radiator so I was planning on using it for my steering fluid and then I was reading Motoman's hydroboost brake upgrade and have decided to do that one too. I want to do this myself and have some questions for you experienced guys.

1. Should I spring for the tools necessary to run hard lines for all of this?
2. CAN I run hard lines or is that a complete waste of time?
3. What exactly would I need? It looks like flaring tools are a few hundred bucks, so with a bender and supplies I could be at $400-500 in supplies to do this right? Not saying it's not worth it since I'd have the tools forever...just curious what experts think here.
4. I also plan on installing a Vintage Air A/C unit from BCB. Any considerations on fitment with hydroboost, saginaw pump, and the compressor for A/C?
5. Any idea what size lines I need for all of this? All different? Can I standardize this somehow? When I installed the steering pump I think it had 2 different size lines running in/out of it.

I'm sure I'll have more questions if anyone is interested in helping me with their experience I really appreciate it!

 

[garberz]

I would run a small trans cooler for the PS pump. Main reason, not that the heat exchanger in the radiator wouldn't work, but it's on the other side of the engine compartment. You can run all the lines in hose. The cooler is on the low pressure side of the system. Mine is all in 5/16" hose. -6 AN fittings. Lots of hose and fittings like this.

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Power_Steering_Pressure_Hose_Kit

Mark

 

[bronconut73]

Just use stainless steel braided lines like high pressure Aeroquip then you can use the -6 which is 6/16 or 3/8 line on everything (hydroboost & power steering).
I think your radiator would get too hot to do your power steering fluid any good.
Put a small fin and tube or stacked plate cooler in front of the radiator in the air stream.

 

[jlylec]

I would run a small trans cooler for the PS pump. Main reason, not that the heat exchanger in the radiator wouldn't work, but it's on the other side of the engine compartment. You can run all the lines in hose. The cooler is on the low pressure side of the system. Mine is all in 5/16" hose. -6 AN fittings. Lots of hose and fittings like this.

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Power_Steering_Pressure_Hose_Kit

Mark

Thanks Mark...probably a stupid question, but how do I tell if it's the low or high pressure side? I read Motoman's hydroboost install and even he got it backwards the first time but I couldn't tell in that write-up what is correct.

I figured I'd run the lines under the radiator to get to the other side since it is over there like you said. I'm worried about space on the driver's side once I install the A/C compressor. This is why I didn't hook back up the PS cooler I had on my stock pump when I installed the Saginaw. I figured it would overheat but didn't realize how bad! The canned ham would instantly boil drops of water I threw on it while trail riding up in the mountains.

Glad to hear I can do it all in hose. That seems easier, although those hoses aren't cheap and I figure I need 4 more of them (hydroboost in/out and new lines to the cooler in/out). Any advantage to running hard lines? Does anyone do that or am I such a noob I sound ridiculous?

 

[bronconut73]

You need flex between the engine mounted pump and the body mounted booster.
So even if you ran hard lines you would have to have some flexible line at one end or another to accommodate the flex that will occur between these two connections.

 

[jlylec]

Just use stainless steel braided lines like high pressure Aeroquip then you can use the -6 which is 6/16 or 3/8 line on everything (hydroboost & power steering).

Thanks...good recommendation!

I think your radiator would get too hot to do your power steering fluid any good.
Put a small fin and tube or stacked plate cooler in front of the radiator in the air stream.

This sounds like a good recommendation too, but somebody told me a couple weeks ago that the empty core on my aluminum radiator (built for auto and I have manual) would be the best for this though. That's where I got the idea. Any recommendations on small cooler or where to buy one?

 

[jlylec]

You need flex between the engine mounted pump and the body mounted booster.
So even if you ran hard lines you would have to have some flexible line at one end or another to accommodate the flex that will occur between these two connections.

Makes sense. thank you!

 

[bronconut73]

Thanks...good recommendation!



This sounds like a good recommendation too, but somebody told me a couple weeks ago that the empty core on my aluminum radiator (built for auto and I have manual) would be the best for this though. That's where I got the idea. Any recommendations on small cooler or where to buy one?

Summit, Jegs, Speedway.
A really small cooler is also available from WH.
Lots of places really.
Maybe EBAY too.
You are looking for a really small tranny cooler.
Mount it in front of the radiator just like a tranny cooler too.

 

[jlylec]

Summit, Jegs, Speedway.

A really small cooler is also available from WH.

Lots of places really.

Maybe EBAY too.

You are looking for a really small tranny cooler.

Mount it in front of the radiator just like a tranny cooler too.

Got it. Thanks man!

 

[jlylec]

Would you guys recommend a cooler like this: http://www.amazon.com/70265-SuperCo...8909939&sr=1-5&keywords=aluminum+fluid+cooler

Or something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-736...1398910167&sr=1-1&keywords=aluminum+dual+pass

 

[broncnaz]

While I probably wouldnt recommend hooking the power steering to the radiator cooler either. As was said you need some flexible lines even if you do hard lines. But thats not hard to do and transmission lines are usually 45 degree flare. Which is the common brake line flare. Flare tools for that are cheap. although you might not even need a tool as most parts houses sell premade lenghts of tubing already flared you just figure out your bends and total lenght and go from there.
Some of the mid/late 70's vehicles didnt use coolers they just used hard line run back and forth across the crossmember. Probably wouldnt look all that great on a EB but it works.
Either of the coolers you linked to will work. Personally Id rather use the radiator type and stick it in front of the radiator for more cooling but since you plan on running AC then you may need to mount that cooler elsewhere. So your second link may be a easier solution as you can mount that on the frame somewhere out of the way but still has some airflow.

 

[welndmn]

What's "hot". Power steering fluid can get warm, but if it's

 

[Rustytruck]

http://www.jcwhitney.com/derale-fin...-kit/p2000858.jcwx?skuId=281473&filterid=u0j1

This is what I use. I run it verticle and run the return fluid in to the bottom fitting then out the top back to the pump. Just make sure you mount it lower than the pump on the return line so all the fluid doesn't drain into the pump when you shut the motor off.

 

[jlylec]

What's "hot". Power steering fluid can get warm, but if it's

Message got cut off, but when in the mountains last weekend my power steering fluid was boiling. The Saginaw pump overflowed from expansion and my steering got really fatigued. I could spritz water on the pump and it instantly boiled so I'd call that HOT! Hopefully it's not the product of something else, but I have NO cooler on there now so I'm hoping adding this will fix it. I'm planning on powering hydroboost brakes with the same Saginaw pump too so I may go a little bigger on the cooler than I otherwise would.

 

[RajinCajun]

It is interesting you bring this up now . I just finished hydro boost on my Bronco and Todd's at the same time. What we have done is use a local hydraulic supplier to get the reusable fittings for -6 fittings. Here is a pic of my cooler and the fitting I am talking about. It is a steel braided line with a rubber/cloth coating to help with chaffing.

The main reason we use this line/fitting set up is that I am using it for my auto transmission cooler (in pic), hydro assist steering, and now my hydro boost brakes. I keep a 9' piece of new hose and assorted fittings and adapters in my box for trail repairs. With Todd and I using the same fittings and lines we can essentially take care of any issue we have on the trail, even if it means leaving one at camp to take something off and retrieve a broken rig. Being able to build the hoses to the exact length makes it nice for routing etc. I think I did my entire hydro boost lines for $50.

If you are interested I can get the exact part numbers for the hose and fittings so you can check your local hydraulic shop.

Oh, on a side note.. hydro boost brakes are AWESOME!!!!! I got to test mine out at K2 this weekend at our Bronco Round-up and after using a stock master cylinder on F350 disk brakes all around I really, really, really like being able to hold my Bronco much, much better with good brakes.

 

[jlylec]

It is interesting you bring this up now . I just finished hydro boost on my Bronco and Todd's at the same time. What we have done is use a local hydraulic supplier to get the reusable fittings for -6 fittings. Here is a pic of my cooler and the fitting I am talking about. It is a steel braided line with a rubber/cloth coating to help with chaffing.

The main reason we use this line/fitting set up is that I am using it for my auto transmission cooler (in pic), hydro assist steering, and now my hydro boost brakes. I keep a 9' piece of new hose and assorted fittings and adapters in my box for trail repairs. With Todd and I using the same fittings and lines we can essentially take care of any issue we have on the trail, even if it means leaving one at camp to take something off and retrieve a broken rig. Being able to build the hoses to the exact length makes it nice for routing etc. I think I did my entire hydro boost lines for $50.

If you are interested I can get the exact part numbers for the hose and fittings so you can check your local hydraulic shop.

Oh, on a side note.. hydro boost brakes are AWESOME!!!!! I got to test mine out at K2 this weekend at our Bronco Round-up and after using a stock master cylinder on F350 disk brakes all around I really, really, really like being able to hold my Bronco much, much better with good brakes.

Thanks this is great to hear! I would love to have the part numbers if it's not too much trouble. That's awesome to hear you did all the lines for like $50. One hose on WH was like $45 so I was considering the cost there.

I'm still going to have drums in the back (for now) but I figure triple brake pressure will be a huge improvement no matter what I have!

 

[welndmn]

That's very strange, ps fluid should not get that hot on the road. I've seen it get hot racing, really sawing the wheel, but trail/street it should be fine.
Do you have pics of your setup?
Any pump noise?

All the fittings and reusable hose ends and hose WH sells too, It's all looe fittings, you'd need to call.

 

[garberz]

...........I think I did my entire hydro boost lines for $50.

If you are interested I can get the exact part numbers for the hose and fittings so you can check your local hydraulic shop.

Oh, on a side note.. hydro boost brakes are AWESOME!!!!! I got to test mine out at K2 this weekend at our Bronco Round-up and after using a stock master cylinder on F350 disk brakes all around I really, really, really like being able to hold my Bronco much, much better with good brakes.

I'll agree about how nice the hydro boost is compared to non assist braking. But plumbing the entire set up for $50? Good luck doing another one that cheap. WH's sells 2 fittings w/3' of hose for $45. That's a better deal than my local supply house. That type of hose is Air/Brake hose for big trucks. It's $7 a ft. and the reusable fittings are now $20 ea. I used 7' of hose and four fittings for my two HP hoses. $130. Still need to plumb the low pressure side. I'm not bitching about the cost. Just be realistic about what your going to spend. These types of hoses will last about forever if they're not rubbing on anything. And being able to make corrects lengths is a plus. The reason I posted WH's link in post #2 is because that's (IMO) the best type of hose and fittings to use, and WH's offering these parts, makes it's simple to purchase the correct stuff.

I spent $450 to plumb my entire hydro boost conversion. A cheap cooler, male AN fittings for the Hydroboost, pump and steering box. HP hose, reusable AN fittings, low pressure hose, a Tee, hose clamps, and brake line tubing and fittings. Oh, I almost forgot about the $45 adjustable proportioning valve for the rear brakes. It works awesome, one of the best mods I have done. Worth every penny. Makes it so nice to drive. Just be prepared to spend a bit of money to make it right.

Mark

 

[broncnaz]

Power steering fluid much like most trany fluids cant take high heat for long period it reduces the life of the oil then pumps and other parts start wearing. High temps are also bad for seals. Oil last longer at lower temps once your over 250 the oil doesnt last long. basically like 6000 miles if 250 is your operating temp. if 300 is your temp then expect less than 900 miles out of the fluid. These are more of less numbers for transmission fluid. but still apply to power steering although you can probably go a bit longer on the oil in a power stering application as you dont have clutch plates to worry about.
If you were really working the steering and brakes then temps over 200 would be expected but if you add a cooler and are still seeing high temps more or less doing little then something is not right with your system.

 

[jlylec]

This wasn't just on the street. This was pretty difficult rock crawling and trail riding all day. I shouldn't have done it before adding the cooler honestly. I hope I didn't permanently damage something. Good to hear on the WH parts. Thanks guys!