steering heims

[73stallion]

is there any type of heim joint preferred for tie rods? i've instaled ones that have nylon races, that just sounds strange. you basically have a piece of plastic between the metal sections, wouldnt that go bad quickly? i know there's a lot of bias about using heims on a steering system, but i like mine, or at least i used to. at least one of my heims is creaking when i turn, and my track bar heim started getting loose after just a few thousand miles (vendor was very good about sending me a replacement, no problems there).

what kind of heims are you guys running on your tie rods? i'm considering changing mine.

 

[TOFIC]

Well mine have worked for about 6 years now.
I use a 3/4 inch heim joint that came rated as "aircraft grade" or "aviation certified". My distributor of the joints told me that all his people were using 5/8 joints but they were hot rods and resto/modifications. I wanted a little more and the jump to 3/4 was 8 percent more expensive and something like 30 percent stronger. This is why I used the big joint.
I have yet to have problems although I have not used the heims on the track bar but I have thought of it. What size heims are you using? the nylon inserts are nice but they are more for Hydralic cylinder applications. My research lead me towards the bronze/brass insert and then to the aircraft quality joint. Not bad for price, dont be afraid of it. Go any more details about your problem?? Is it wear on a general scale?? is the center oblonging?? Is the insert dying and then it fails. what kind of offsets are we talking about here.
There are tons of variables I ran into. More info is really needed.
TOFIC
TOFIC

 

[73stallion]

i can't really feel any play in the steering joints at all. they're still tight, but they're creaking. it's almost like they're dry, but i've read somewhere not to lube them. if that's wrong, please let me know otherwise.

the track bar heim just developed a little bit of play in it. like i said, the vendor replaced that heim for me, so i'm very happy about that. they're FK heims, i do know that. here's a link to them;

http://www.fkrodends.com/KMX KMXL.htm

i talked to another vendor about this problem, they said they changed heims because of this very problem. they started creaking after a while. i installed another set of these tie rods on another bronco and they're doing the same thing BTW.

 

[broncnaz]

I think thats the one of the problems with trying to use hiems for this application I would hesitate before usig the nylon bushed heims as the nylon will not take the abuse. Brass bushed ones may hold up better and they are self lubericated. I can see why they say not to lube hiems as you would probably only push more dirt in that would cause faster wear. They do sell seals now that will help proctect the joint form dirt and I believe there are greaseable heims availible. all in all I dont care for Hiems in most of our applications but as TOFIC said you may want to use the biggest ones you can.

 

[73stallion]

speedway motors sells those heim seals, i may buy them when i get replacements. at $12.95 for a set of seals, that's cheaper than replacing all the heim joints.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1528,296_Rod-End-and-Heim-Joint-Seals.html

 

[spixican07]

sorry for the newbie question but what exactly are heims? The ends of the tie rods?

 

[73stallion]

they're spherical ball ends, in this case they take the place of normal tie rod ends. they're also used on the ends of 4 link arms, sometimes replace bushing ends on track bars, used on all sorts of agricultural equipment, etc...

 

[TOFIC]

Well "creaking" usually means a dry surface rubbing condition. I must admit I am a little surprised, my distributor INSISTED on greaseable Heims for my application. Mine have a grease fitting on it and a couple of shots of grease once or twice a year is all they get. Not a squeak from them and they are nice and tight. His reason for this was the "shock loading" of one side of the joint (ie when you turn) causes a abnormal sheer force for a split second and this could cause specific location wear. so far, he has been right, and his knowledge has been massive on this area.
TOFIC

 

[chuck]

Hey Ben, the heims are holding up great for most people. I sale the same heims that we use on the racer and they hold up great. They get free but not loose. The nylon does not fail, or hasn't yet. I haven't heard of anyone except you complain about noise so am not sure why yours are. We will look it over when we get it back. I don't think the seals are a good idea as the dirt that does get in will stay. BTW If you come up with a better heim I will look into using it.

 

[bushman]

Just for the info, I work on helicopters for a living and we use large heims all over. The smaller joints are a metal to metal greasable type, but the big ones that take huge forces have a phenolic liner. We don't lubricate these ones at all. When I was a newbie, I sprayed lube on one that "looked dry" and the next day we had to change it. It had crapped out all of the phenolic.

 

[Gummi Bear]

Ben -

If you're not having luck with the FK's, the only other manufacturer that I trust for something so critical is Aurora. You may see what they have to offer:

http://www.aurorabearing.com/

Their Mil-Spec stuff should be more than up to the task.

 

[chuck]

I just talked to a eng. at FK, he says do not use the brass liner heims for street or race, the brass can not take the shock load abuse. They have a joint that is stronger but it is also $16 more. I may offer them as up grades.

 

[SpareParts]

I have the Aurora ones on the steering that I built. I don not have it on the road yet, but upon first observation, they are awsome. You can flick the ball end and it will rotate about 3 times before coming to a stop. They are super smooth, unlike the FK's. I don't think the FK's are bad by any means, I had a friend that I got the Aurora's from who works at Bigfoot 4x4. Thats the only heim they have found to hold up to their abuse.

David

 

[73stallion]

well, the idea behind the dust boots is to keep the dust out. i went ahead and ordered them this morning, so i'll see how they work out when i replace the heims.

 

[Gummi Bear]

well, the idea behind the dust boots is to keep the dust out. i went ahead and ordered them this morning, so i'll see how they work out when i replace the heims.

Here's something to think about:

Those dust boots will hold in just as much funk as they keep out.

Mud is the #1 enemy and offender.

Consider the use, and the user, before installing them.

 

[73stallion]

well, thankfully my bronco never sees mud. thanks for the thoughts though.

 

[TOFIC]

Brass inserted heim joints
I agree with Chuck on this. I was told not to touch them by my fella. In my original post I stated I looked at these and then went to the "aviation grade stuff" Was I unclear on this, guys?? If so, my apologies, I do not use those joints for reasons explained to me by the SME (subject matter expert). Basically they cannot survive the shock loading.
TOFIC