Stock Dana 44 3.50

[Johnnyb]

So I have a stock open Dana 44 with 3.50 gears, and I'm going to be going to 4.11.

Can I just change the ring and pinion or will I need to change the whole differential?

Ask question part b, how many splines would be in the stock Dana 44?

Thx-JB

 

[.94 OR]

My understanding is you will need to purchase the correct 4.11 (thicker gear) to fit on the 3.50 carrier.

 

[Broncobowsher]

The normal thing is a new carrier. 3.73 and below use one carrier, 3.92 and above use a diffrent offset.
The thick gears are a crutch around a new carrier. This also gives you the option to get something better than an open diff.
The standard splines are 30 count. No reason for anything else.

 

[jamesroney]

The normal thing is a new carrier. 3.73 and below use one carrier, 3.92 and above use a diffrent offset.
The thick gears are a crutch around a new carrier. This also gives you the option to get something better than an open diff.
The standard splines are 30 count. No reason for anything else.

The thin gears were implemented back in the late 1940’s as a manufacturing improvement and a cost savings. That became the standard for the next 60 years. A new standard was created by Dana Spicer in 2003 as a result of the introduction of the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with the tru-Lok selectable locker from Tochigi Fuji Sangyo. The tru-Lok used a larger carrier spacing, so the 4.10 TJ Rubicon ring gear was made to the 3.73 offset. This resulted in a “new standard” and has confused almost everyone. The Aftermarket has done a miserable job of standardizing the language. If you think it’s confusing for the Dana 44, don’t get me started on the Dana 61 / 60 thick thin disaster.

The Dana 44 TJ Rubicon gears do not have a carrier split. There’s only one carrier, so if you want anything other than 4.10 for your Rubicon, then you are going to get “thick” gears. As a fortunate side effect, this now provides a new opportunity for the older (1948-2007) Dana 44. You can now buy 2003-2006 TJ Rubicon gears in any ratio, and they will fit with your D44 3.73 and down carrier!

So what was “normal” for the past 60 years is no longer normal. The TJ non-rubicon gear set did not change. In 2007, the JK Rubicon arrived, and the Dana 44 (M216) world got turned on its head again. Then the M226 arrived, and was named Dana 44 again.

So in 2022, you have about the same chance of describing a Dana 44 gearset as you would to describe an assault rifle. Nobody actually knows what anybody is talking about.

 

[Johnnyb]

Thanks for the excellent explanation! I need to get on it right away so maybe I'll call the guys at wh and see what they have to offer.

 

[Broncobowsher]

But there are still more history...
There is the early coarse spline axles. 18 spline?
The M226 was not made for Jeep initially. It was made for Nissan and used on the Titan in 2004 and optional on the Frontier/Xterra in 2005. Dana found another customer in Jeep. Some of the Nissan axles were the right spline that people have put the axle shafts and tubes into a Dana 60 center section.
Besides the M226 and M216 that most know of from Jeeps, there is also an M205 that is labeled as a Dana 44.
The modern stuff is even worse than mentioned, splines on the pinion change. Not following which version you have, but over the years.
Even the old school stuff there is the regular low pinion, and the reverse spiral ((not really) reverse rotation) high pinion that Ford used a lot of. But never in an early Bronco unless someone has been swapping stuff.

OK, enough of that tangent...
You are dealing with old school Dana 44. Call up Randy Ring and Pinion and tell them you are going from stock early Bronco 3.50 gears to 4.10s. This is common old school stuff. They know what you have, they sell sell you the right parts. It isn't that hard, unless you are trying to deal with the modern stuff.

 

[jamesroney]

But there are still more history...
There is the early coarse spline axles. 18 spline?
The M226 was not made for Jeep initially. It was made for Nissan and used on the Titan in 2004 and optional on the Frontier/Xterra in 2005. Dana found another customer in Jeep. Some of the Nissan axles were the right spline that people have put the axle shafts and tubes into a Dana 60 center section.
Besides the M226 and M216 that most know of from Jeeps, there is also an M205 that is labeled as a Dana 44.
The modern stuff is even worse than mentioned, splines on the pinion change. Not following which version you have, but over the years.
Even the old school stuff there is the regular low pinion, and the reverse spiral ((not really) reverse rotation) high pinion that Ford used a lot of. But never in an early Bronco unless someone has been swapping stuff.

OK, enough of that tangent...
You are dealing with old school Dana 44. Call up Randy Ring and Pinion and tell them you are going from stock early Bronco 3.50 gears to 4.10s. This is common old school stuff. They know what you have, they sell sell you the right parts. It isn't that hard, unless you are trying to deal with the modern stuff.

Lots of good stuff in this post, but more to be said. There were several D44 axle shaft configurations, most notably the 1957 to 1964 Jeep FC170, M38, CJ, etc. ran the 10 spline axle shafts. Those are the "early coarse spline" axles. After that, there was the 19 spline axle shaft. Those are also the "early coarse spline" axle...but totally different. It is worth noting that the mid 60's Dana 44 19 spline axle is also called the Salisbury 4H when found in a Jaguar or Sunbeam Tiger. The pre-1967 Dana 44 also came with a 10 spline (coarse) pinion and yoke. So when you are dealing with "old school" Dana 44, you STILL have to know more than the guy you are buying from. Otherwise, you will pay extra.

For the OP, he had a specific request to change his Bronco Dana 44 from 3.50 to 4.11. If I were going to do that...I would buy a used set of take out TJ Rubicon Dana 44 front gears. There's at least a dozen on ebay all the time. If he pays more than $75.00, then he got ripped off.

That's right. You can do the 3.50 to 4.10 swap on an early Bronco for $75.00 in parts. I'm going to bet that Randy's Ring and Pinion charges more than that.

And your side gears are 30 spline from the factory.

...and yes, I know that the OP asked for 4.11 (37/9), when he really meant 4.09 (45/11) . And yes, the TJ Rubicon 44 is actually true 4.10. (41/10)

 

[jamesroney]

Oh, and while I'm stuck on this tangent, the Nissan M226 is really a derivation of the Dana 44HD, as found in the 1996 ZJ. So who came first? People had been putting Ford Dana 50HP gears into Dana 44HP housings since the 80's. The M226 is like a Dana 44HD with a 226mm ring gear used in a Nissan and called a M226. I don't think it has much in common with the later JL/JT Jeep M226.

The "Dana 44" brand really didn't mean much to anyone until the middle 70's and even then it was only used to make the distinction between the "good one" and the "bad one." When GM started using the Corporate 10 bolt in the front of their K series truck, you could get a Dana axle, or a GM corporate axle. Both had 10 cover bolts. But the Dana axle was much preferred due to aftermarket support. So then everyone wanted a Dana 44. Prior to that, during the muscle car era, the Mopar Dana 60 was the dominant brand. and prior to that, (mid 60's) if you wanted a decent limited slip in your half ton ford pickup...you ordered it with a Dana 60. Nobody ever gave a crap that you had a Dana 44 in your 1950 Mercury. Or even that you had a Dana 44 in your pre-57 F100. It's not really a very strong axle, compared to a 9 inch or a 60. Fast forward to the 2000's, and everyone wants a Dana 44 in their Jeep. Mostly because the AMC Corporate 20 was a pile of crap, and the 72-75 CJ5 Dana 44 was vastly better. And the branding wars began. Then a PAIR of Dana 44's in a TJ Rubicon, and we have reached Nirvana. (almost as strong as an early Bronco or Scout 2!)

Now everybody knows that they want a "Dana 44" in their off road rig. So the manufacturers are happy to oblige. So they put a whole bunch of different stuff out there, and name it all "Dana 44" The problem is that the Dana 44 in your Jeep Wrangler JL is about twice as strong as the Dana 44 in your Early Bronco. And twice again as strong as the Dana 44 IFS in your mid 80's F250. Which is about twice as strong as the dana 44 in your 1950 Willys CJ3A.

Gotta run.

 

[Johnnyb]

Lots of great information about the history of the Dana 44! It's really interesting stuff.

And also thanks for the information specific to my needs. I'm not exactly finding the $75 takeouts on eBay, but I'll keep looking into this economical alternative.

This is actually a long-term build, and I might just order the correct ARB and the correct 4.09 gears - which will be a lot more than 75 bucks!

 

[jamesroney]

No problem, but there’s a set for $71 on eBay right now.

 

[gnpenning]

Great information gentleman.

What parts interchange between the HP 44 and LP 44.

Sorry for the highJack.

 

[jamesroney]

Great information gentleman.

What parts interchange between the HP 44 and LP 44.

Sorry for the highJack.

A 1977 f150 high pinion Dana 44 shares almost every item on the BOM with a 1977 Bronco low pinion. Carrier, bearings, shims, seals, yokes, axle spline count, everything except the ring and pinion.
A 1971 Bronco Dana 44 shares zero parts with a 2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon high pinion Dana 44. I don’t even think the cover bolts will swap. So I have no idea what you mean when you say “Dana 44”

In 1977, There is a baffle located under the pinion bearing cone on the HP44 that is not used in the Low pinion.

 

[Johnnyb]

You know what, I bought the part right off of eBay to keep my options open! I know ARBs are a little bit on the long side for delivery, I've been waiting for my 9-in ARB for quite a few months.

Thanks
JB

 

[gnpenning]

A 1977 f150 high pinion Dana 44 shares almost every item on the BOM with a 1977 Bronco low pinion. Carrier, bearings, shims, seals, yokes, axle spline count, everything except the ring and pinion.
A 1971 Bronco Dana 44 shares zero parts with a 2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon high pinion Dana 44. I don’t even think the cover bolts will swap. So I have no idea what you mean when you say “Dana 44”

In 1977, There is a baffle located under the pinion bearing cone on the HP44 that is not used in the Low pinion.

Let's narrow it down then. Say a 74 bronco with a 74 F100.

I did leave a wide open question.