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T-bird calipers Astro Boost HELP

Mach

New Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
2
Having issues with my rear drum brakes.
The disk fronts grab I hard but rear drums don’t grab all that hard at all. Also the pedal will go to the floor and feels kinda soft. On jackstands in drive.. As I push the pedal the rears don’t stop spinning until the pedal is at the floor.

I’ve got the Wilwood proportion valve is open fully (clockwise) to the rear. The rear drums are adjusted well.

Running Astro hydoboost. Duff T-bird calipers. Stock rear 10” drums. 10lb residual valve for the rear. Wilwood 1.125” MC. Wilwood proportion valve.

I’ve got everything blead to death.

Any ideas?
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,743
Are you certain that the rears are adjusted well?
Are you running the parking brake? If so, how many clicks before the rears lock up?

Are your booster and master a matched set that were already working on the donor, or are they all new parts?
If new, did you measure the distance between the booster rod and the back of the piston?
I’m not sure if the Astro booster and master suffer the same fate as many other setups do, but if the rod is adjustable, you certainly have to verify the gap.

The fronts lock solid with minimal pedal travel? Or does it still go mostly to the floor?
I don’t remember, but do the Astro Vans plumb the front reservoir to the front brakes, or to the rear?
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,551
Loc.
Upper SoKA
Do you still have the stock distribution block?

Stupid question, but is the RPV installed in the correct direction?
 

Quick & Dirty

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
842
Do you have a hold-off valve?
A combination valve for a disk-drum system has a hold-off on the disks and a proportioning valve on the drums.
When the pedal is first pushed the hold-off blocks flow to the disks until there is enough pressure for the drums to activate, so the drums apply first. With sufficient pressure, flow is allowed to the disks so all brakes apply. When a set pressure is reached, flow to the drums is blocked so they don't lock up as weight is transferred to the front.

b86670122d959780d5e1365d6b3498b1-jpg.634033
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,551
Loc.
Upper SoKA
Hold-off valves fell out of favor long ago, but it is why I asked if the stock combo valve is in service because that is the only place that you'll find them.
 

Madgyver

Contributor
Bronco Madman
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Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,859
What MC are you using?
I have a 77 corvette MC connected to Astroboost unit on mine for many years. Works great.
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
48,743
Another possibility is a defective proportioning valve. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it happening with a Wilwood, but it certainly happened with the standard variety. Wasn’t due to an offset lamp shuttle either. Just some obstruction inside not letting fluid go to the brakes. The front brakes in the case I remember though.

Even though you say you’ve got it all the way open, why not try close it down all the way in the other direction just to see if anything changes.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,551
Loc.
Upper SoKA
If the OP is getting reasonable fluid volume out of the rear bleeders, then it's not obstructed enough to matter.

Turning the adjuster knob fully the opposite direction is worth testing.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
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Speaking of your setup, and defective parts, perhaps it’s your 10 psi RPV that is defective.
That is certainly another component in the rear system that could be blocking flow.

Are you set up in such a way that you can temporarily remove it, perhaps replacing it with a threaded coupler, and allow straight through fluid.
Or maybe you can even test the existing one off the vehicle with compressed air?

In fact, for me, I wouldn’t even install one.
Not really a need for them as much now, with our master cylinder is mounted way up higher than the actual braking components.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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Messages
3,551
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Drum brakes should have a 10 psi RPV. It keeps the shoe return springs from retracting the shoes too far, which can result in an "oh shiat!!" excessive pedal travel the first time the pedal is used after some time or distance.
BUT, there only needs to be one of them in the drum circuit and OEM m/c's intended for use with drum brakes have one under the sealing cone in the outlet port. The wilwood m/c that the OP has is very unlikely to have one.

The 2 psi RPV's are intended for use in systems where the m/c is lower than the calipers and/or wheel cylinders.
 

Apogee

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Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,124
FWIW, the 10 PSI residual pressure valves do not provide enough pressure to resist the force provided by the main return spring on the shoes. Doing the math, 10 PSI across the piston area of a Ø15/16" bore wheel cylinder, like the ones my '77 runs, would equate to about 10.7 pounds of force, as compared to the relatively huge force provided by the return spring (60 lb/in?...80lb/in?...whatever it is, it's a lot). Force = Pressure*Area, where the area of the wheel cylinder is .69 inches squared and the pressure is defined by the RPV as 10 lb/inches squared.

My understanding of the purpose of running a 10 PSI residual pressure valve in a drum brake circuit is to maintain pressure on the cup seals inside the wheel cylinders when the brakes are released and the return spring collapses the wheel cylinder and allows the shoes to disengage the drum. By maintaining some pressure on the seals, they remain "inflated" and in contact with the bore of the wheel cylinder, preventing leaks of both fluid out from and/or air into the system. Without the residual pressure, the original seals were prone to "burping" fluid out and air into the system, leading to a lower and lower pedal over time with less and less rear brake contribution, hence the solution of the valve. Most OEM's don't add anything to a vehicle unless needed to address a specific problem.

That said, modern day material advances with the polymeric wheel cylinder seals have all but eliminated the need for the 10 PSI RPV's, which you may notice when purchasing modern master cylinders for older applications, as many will be provided without an RPV in the drum brake circuit outlet port. Back in the day, there were some mechanical solutions as well with spring expanders and such, so not all drum brake applications used the same RPV solution.

As ntsqd noted above, 2 PSI valves are great for low-mounted master cylinders (race cars and cars/trucks from the early 60's or older) as well as off-road applications where wheels are regularly above the MC height. Wilwood added a 4 PSI option a few years ago, and it serves as a good option to combat pad knockback, something more commonly associated with track-day type applications, but is much easier to implement than individual springs under the caliper pistons to achieve something similar. And then the 10 PSI units, which have become less and less of a requirement in many modern applications, but certainly won't hurt anything in a drum brake circuit.

Tobin
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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~20 years ago it was the floating rotor designs that really suffered from knock-back. Maybe that's still true and maybe not.

I think maybe this thread is stuck until we get mor einfo from the OP?
 
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