Tips for 302 rebuild/upgrade

[Sutcavage]

Pulled the motor (302) to upgrade it from it's stock setup. It's never been rebuild before from what I've been told. I also want to swap the stock 3-speed with a 4 or a 5 speed while I have to motor out. Right now I have it setup literally how it came from the factory. Vacuum lines and all that.

I'm not looking to street race so I don't need a cam that puts out a lot of power at high RPMs, a high rise intake or anything like that. Just a moderate amount of torque is what I'm after. Maybe enough to spin some bigger tires in the future.

What are some common cams, intakes, carburetors and other upgrades you guys went with and why?

Thanks for the help!

 

[DJs74]

Pulled the motor (302) to upgrade it from it's stock setup. It's never been rebuild before from what I've been told. I also want to swap the stock 3-speed with a 4 or a 5 speed while I have to motor out. Right now I have it setup literally how it came from the factory. Vacuum lines and all that.

I'm not looking to street race so I don't need a cam that puts out a lot of power at high RPMs, a high rise intake or anything like that. Just a moderate amount of torque is what I'm after. Maybe enough to spin some bigger tires in the future.

What are some common cams, intakes, carburetors and other upgrades you guys went with and why?

Thanks for the help!

Comp Cams, Lunati Cams, Edelbrock intake, Weiand intake, Holley carburetors, MSD ignition, Ford Duraspark ignition, MSD distributor, valvetrain: such as rocker arms, valve springs, pushrods... match with camshaft specs.
Comp Cam offers full kits with all matching components in one kit P/N

Visit some sites like Comp or Lunati or Summit and input your specific criteria and you'll get multiple recommendations.

These are the brands I use and have had a high reliability rating with, great performance record for me and have a broad offerings depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

For a good, strong, reliable street engine... I suggest the following
* Hydraulic flat or hydraulic roller camshaft
**Lift of 0.470s up to low .500s
**Duration @ 0.050" lift of 215° to 220°
* Intake: idle to 5000 RPM
* Valvetrain to match the camshaft specs
* Headers
* 550 - 650 CFM 4 bbl carburetor or EFI if you prefer
* A good electronic ignition system with matching distributor
* Bottom end: stock bore and stroke unless your cylinder bores need to be cleaned up by 0.020 or 0.030
* The factory cylinder heads should be checked over by a machine shop, possible valve job and/or new valves depending on their condition

If you want to spin big tires, consider gear ratio changes of 4.11 or lower to compliment your engine build

I'm an automatic transmission kinda guy, I have no offerings on a manual transmission.


DJs74

 

[WILDHORSES]

You can also look at it from a "what's your budget?" stand point. It's easy for a motor build to ramp up really quick $3-6000 or more with all the extras after the long block. Basic long block rebuild might be as little as $1500-2000 depending on where you take it. Moving past that level I like the Edelbrock kits. Hard to beat the E-street package on a budget.

For extras a modern EFI system like FiTech, Holley Snyper or MSD Atomic would be great editions. These are all great kits. If we are sticking with a carb I lean towards the Holley.

For the tranny a 5 Speed OD like a AX15 or NV3550 would be the ticket.

Good luck with the build!

Jim

 

[73azbronco]

First and most importantly, what do you want to spend?

 

[blubuckaroo]

Having a short block built, (or built yourself) rather than buying a short block, gives you the opportunity to select the cam and compression.
Other than that, it's just a matter of selecting the heads, intake, carb, distributor, and exhaust that work with that cam & compression.

I like the Edelbrock Performer cam's profile. It's so good that most other cam manufacturers have cloned it.

Any good low profile dual plane manifold will work well. The Edelbrock Performer is probably the most common but Weiand makes one I like better.

For heads, you really aren't going to be breathing hard enough to appreciate aftermarket. However, the stock 302 heads restrict the exhaust a lot. E7 heads are a big improvement.

Carbs will always have a following for either an Edelbrock or Holley. The thing is to keep it small enough so it has good velocity.
I use a 500 CFM Edelbrock, but have really been studying the Summit 4 bbl. It looks like a Motorcrft 4100 knockoff.

A Duraspark distributor is really hard to beat. The trick is to recurve the advance to work with your new cam/intake/carb combination.

So, you really don't need to go crazy to get the 302 to pull good.
One of the strongest running 302s I've seen was built with an Edelbrock Performer cam, E7 heads from a 5.0, and a Autolite 2 bbl carb. That thing would pull like crazy!

 

[Sutcavage]

Comp Cams, Lunati Cams, Edelbrock intake, Weiand intake, Holley carburetors, MSD ignition, Ford Duraspark ignition, MSD distributor, valvetrain: such as rocker arms, valve springs, pushrods... match with camshaft specs.
Comp Cam offers full kits with all matching components in one kit P/N

Visit some sites like Comp or Lunati or Summit and input your specific criteria and you'll get multiple recommendations.

These are the brands I use and have had a high reliability rating with, great performance record for me and have a broad offerings depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

For a good, strong, reliable street engine... I suggest the following
* Hydraulic flat or hydraulic roller camshaft
**Lift of 0.470s up to low .500s
**Duration @ 0.050" lift of 215° to 220°
* Intake: idle to 5000 RPM
* Valvetrain to match the camshaft specs
* Headers
* 550 - 650 CFM 4 bbl carburetor or EFI if you prefer
* A good electronic ignition system with matching distributor
* Bottom end: stock bore and stroke unless your cylinder bores need to be cleaned up by 0.020 or 0.030
* The factory cylinder heads should be checked over by a machine shop, possible valve job and/or new valves depending on their condition

If you want to spin big tires, consider gear ratio changes of 4.11 or lower to compliment your engine build

I'm an automatic transmission kinda guy, I have no offerings on a manual transmission.


DJs74

I've narrowed it down to a few cams. What is the meaning of the stall number? "Hydraulic-Very strong torque and throttle response, 2500+ stall." Why do you prefer those lift and duration specs?

On to the intakes. Edelbrock sells a 4v and a 2v EGR intake. Same intake, one just comes with a plate for a 2 barrel. My question is, why use the EGR at all?

Looking at carburetors on Holley's website. When selecting which type, it asks for expected maximum RPM. Should I just ballpark a number?

I plan on pulling the heads this week and taking them to a machine shop to see what they have to say about them.

If the tech lines were open on weekends I would've just called them, instead of bothering you with more questions.

Thank you very much. You have been a big help.

 

[Sutcavage]

You can also look at it from a "what's your budget?" stand point. It's easy for a motor build to ramp up really quick $3-6000 or more with all the extras after the long block. Basic long block rebuild might be as little as $1500-2000 depending on where you take it. Moving past that level I like the Edelbrock kits. Hard to beat the E-street package on a budget.

For extras a modern EFI system like FiTech, Holley Snyper or MSD Atomic would be great editions. These are all great kits. If we are sticking with a carb I lean towards the Holley.

For the tranny a 5 Speed OD like a AX15 or NV3550 would be the ticket.

Good luck with the build!

Jim

I don't really have an overall budget, I also don't want to buy more than I need. Hahaha if that makes sense?

Checked out those kits you mentioned. If I don't HAVE to buy new heads, should I?

Man you're like the 5th person I spoke to who recommends Holley. Any reason why you like Holley over Edelbrock?

I'll keep my eye out for those transmissions

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Sutcavage]

First and most importantly, what do you want to spend?

Don't have a specific number. Just don't want to spend money on anything I don't really need if I'm not looking for serious power.

 

[Sutcavage]

Having a short block built, (or built yourself) rather than buying a short block, gives you the opportunity to select the cam and compression.
Other than that, it's just a matter of selecting the heads, intake, carb, distributor, and exhaust that work with that cam & compression.

I like the Edelbrock Performer cam's profile. It's so good that most other cam manufacturers have cloned it.

Any good low profile dual plane manifold will work well. The Edelbrock Performer is probably the most common but Weiand makes one I like better.

For heads, you really aren't going to be breathing hard enough to appreciate aftermarket. However, the stock 302 heads restrict the exhaust a lot. E7 heads are a big improvement.

Carbs will always have a following for either an Edelbrock or Holley. The thing is to keep it small enough so it has good velocity.
I use a 500 CFM Edelbrock, but have really been studying the Summit 4 bbl. It looks like a Motorcrft 4100 knockoff.

A Duraspark distributor is really hard to beat. The trick is to recurve the advance to work with your new cam/intake/carb combination.

So, you really don't need to go crazy to get the 302 to pull good.
One of the strongest running 302s I've seen was built with an Edelbrock Performer cam, E7 heads from a 5.0, and a Autolite 2 bbl carb. That thing would pull like crazy!

Hhmm, I did not know that about Edelbrocks cam.

Why do you prefer the Weiand intake over the Edelbrock?

Nah I don't think I'll need heads either. But I will keep that swap in mind.

Exactly. When it comes to buying a carburetor, more is not always better. Any experience with Holleys line of carburetors?

Sorry if this is a dumb question. What do you mean by recurving the advance on the distributor?

Thank you for all your help!

 

[DJs74]

I've narrowed it down to a few cams. What is the meaning of the stall number? "Hydraulic-Very strong torque and throttle response, 2500+ stall." Why do you prefer those lift and duration specs?

On to the intakes. Edelbrock sells a 4v and a 2v EGR intake. Same intake, one just comes with a plate for a 2 barrel. My question is, why use the EGR at all?

Looking at carburetors on Holley's website. When selecting which type, it asks for expected maximum RPM. Should I just ballpark a number?

I plan on pulling the heads this week and taking them to a machine shop to see what they have to say about them.

If the tech lines were open on weekends I would've just called them, instead of bothering you with more questions.

Thank you very much. You have been a big help.

First... you are no bother at all - that's why this website exist, questions... support and answers.

The lift and duration I suggested was just a range based on a street application (as opposed to street/strip or all out drag race) that should offer good street manners with good low end torque as opposed to high HP / high RPMs. The duration number is how long your intake and exhaust valves are staying open (in angular degrees) as related to crankshaft revolution degrees - so for example, a duration of 210° would be the amount of degrees the valve is open with respect to 360° total degrees of one crank revolution. The lift is how far your intake and exhaust valves open off the seat based on the cam lobe lift multiplied by the rocker ratio.

The stall number is related to your torque converter - camshaft specs and /or suggestions from the manufacturers will generally let you know what stall you should be using for that particular camshaft. For example: a camshaft making power or rated at 1500 to 5000 RPM will probably not require a lot of stall from the converter because the beginning of the camshaft power band (1500) is within or right around a factory stall rating. On the other end of the spectrum - an all out drag race camshaft making power from 4000 to 8500 will want a converter with stall of around 4500 or so because the stall rating needs to be inside of the beginning of the camshaft power band.
For a good street camshaft that will offer good low end torque, your factory converter up to about 2000/2500 stall should be plenty sufficient, but is important to pay attention to torque converter requirements when choosing a camshaft.


DJs74

 

[sykanr0ng]

I've narrowed it down to a few cams. What is the meaning of the stall number? "Hydraulic-Very strong torque and throttle response, 2500+ stall."

Thank you very much. You have been a big help.

Stall number is for the torque converter, which is an automatic transmission part.

Unless you have changed your plans to use a 4 or 5 speed manual transmission you can ignore those numbers.

 

[rguest3]

Sutcavage - Comp Cams makes some Complete Cam kits that include all "Matching" compatible parts in one box.

I would suggest the Comp Cam - K31-234-3 Kit (hydraulic Flat tappet) for your original 302 motor. This Kit has all the valvetrain you need. Cam, Lifters and Timing set. Clean Up your heads with a 3-angle valve job and install the Springs, Locks, Retainers and Valve Stem Seals that are in the Comp Cam Kit. Assuming your Valves are still good some nice Rocker Arms complete the heads. You will order the pushrods after all else is installed to get correct length.

Performer Intake with a FiTech Go Street EFI (400HP version) would be my next call. Really not that much more expensive than a carb set up. Reliability!

Some Headers (Hooker, Hedman) and 2 1/4" exhaust pipes will be nice for the exhaust.

Nice, torquey, engine with good reliability that won't break the bank..... You'll need more parts in the future for other stuff anyway.

 

[Rustytruck]

Dump the 302 and go to a modern 5.0 with a roller cam and if you can afford it go with the fuel injection too. The more modern motor corrects all of the old technology failures that sent the old 302's into early demise compaired to todays standards. After spending several thousand dollers on a new motor you will be much happier. I have never heard anyone that went 5.0 wish they would go back to 302.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Hhmm, I did not know that about Edelbrocks cam.

Why do you prefer the Weiand intake over the Edelbrock?

The Weiand has wider sealing surfaces where it seals against the head. I've seen the where the blue permaseal line on a FelPro gasket was actually exposed above the intake manifold seal surface on an Edelbrock intake.
I've personally had intake gasket failures on Edelbrock intakes both on the runners and coolant passages.




Sorry if this is a dumb question. What do you mean by recurving the advance on the distributor?

The distributor has the task of changing the timing advance depending on engine speed and load. The rate of those changes needs to be adjusted according to your particular cam, vehicle weight, gearing, and use.
I was referring to those adjustments as a distributor advance recurve.
To change the advance, you replace the advance springs and/or weights so the advance follows a curve somewhat inline with the engine's rpm.
This is oversimplifying it a lot.
Here's the process for a Ford Duraspark distributor. I had these guys at Reincarnation set mine up. It was pretty much plug-n-play.
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_index.html

 

[Broncobowsher]

While making dreams of spending your money...

Compression is good all around. Flat top pistons and bump the compression up to 9-9.5:1 will do wonders to torque and HP across the board. Don't go too crazy or you will start needing premium fuel.

If you have the budget (and consider the cost of refurbishing the stock heads to offset this) a set of mild aftermarket aluminum heads. They control heat so much better you can get a bump of .5-1 point of compression and keep the same grade of fuel. And any of the aftermarket heads will outflow anything stock. Neat part about good flowing heads, you can gain performance without having to go to a bigger cam. Which means you can keep your drivability of a mild cam but still make power because you have the airflow.

Other things I like to do. Keep the quench height tight. You will often see suggestions that .040 is good, I like it tighter. I've run less than .030" but I probably shouldn't be recommending that. You need to pay attention to piston height, deck height, and head gasket thickness.

 

[needabronco]

The absolute first thing you should do is determine what you want out of your engine and what your willing to spend.

Second you can tear your own engine down and take it to a reputable machine shop or have them do the tear down. When selecting a machine shop you need to pay attention. If they spout out a price without looking at your engine, keep shopping. If a shop wants to look at your engine first, mic's the crank and bores, and then recommends a few options go with this shop! These are real engine builders who will only do what needs to be done.

As for your engine, I'd stick with a hypereutectic piston (you don't need forged)and no more than a .30 over bore on the pistons. For the camshaft I'd highly recommend the Edelbrock Performer it is a nice cam for a stock to warmed up mill, even if you decide to go to efi later on. Go with a decent timing set and a high volume (not high pressure) oil pump. If your set on rebuilding stock heads, you'll be okay or if you choose to go with a cheaper set of aluminum heads keep your compression around 9.5:1 or so and you'll be fine. For ignition there's no need for any MSD junk you your engine, it will only cost you money and you'll be replacing it again in short order. I'd either drop in an electronic ignition module in the stock distributor or upgrade to Ford Duraspark. As far as intake and carburetor, you really can't go wrong with the stock intake and a rebuilt 2bbl. If you want to go up to a 4 bbl, I'd go with and Edelbrock Performer intake to match the cam and stay below a 650 cfm carburetor, my preference is an Edelbrock Carb, I had great success with their off road carburetor, I think it's the #1826. Edelbrock's are easy to setup and seem to stay tuned very well.

If you build a solid short block or even a long block and use stock heads, intake, carb, and ignition you can always upgrade later on, that's the easy stuff...

 

[fordguy]

Dump the 302 and go to a modern 5.0 with a roller cam and if you can afford it go with the fuel injection too. The more modern motor corrects all of the old technology failures that sent the old 302's into early demise compaired to todays standards. After spending several thousand dollers on a new motor you will be much happier. I have never heard anyone that went 5.0 wish they would go back to 302.

if any way possible i would go 5.0 roller

 

[Joe473]

What he said. Very happy with the 96 explorer block and gt 40 heads. Weiand intake and 4100 carb. With BC headers and comp cam.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[blubuckaroo]

the old technology failures that sent the old 302's into early demise compaired to todays standards.

Early demise? It had a good long run!

For me a roller motor is nice but not a deal breaker.
The only other thing I can think of is the one piece rear main seal that comes on a 5.0.
Actually, I prefer the two piece seal. They are easier to replace.

 

[NCPULLEDPORK]

In the final stages of research and think I am about to purchase the BluePrint Engines Ford 5.0L 302 HO long block and run an Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold. Purchasing the FITECH GO EFI 4 600HP (personal choice, have had my carb do me wrong to many times) and I have MSD set up that will move over and hooker headers as well. From what I have looked into and discussing with various local shops, this seems to be the best bang for the buck, about $3K for block and parts. This long block setup comes with 225 stock HP and plan a few upgrades down the road:

-E-303 cam or Fireball cam
-Trickflow Twisted Wedge or AFR 165 Heads

Still undecided on direction for cam and heads for upgrades later if desired, anticipate with the right build outs here about 300HP from the motor.

Also, am doing the AOD trans swap from Monster Transmission - to get away from my three on the tree, looking into the transfer case adaptor requirements and plan on ordering this by mid-week. Curious to hear others thoughts on this build out before I put the dollars on the table.