• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

To Lock, or Not to Lock... That is the Question

JeepGuy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
1,239
Getting to the point where it's time to upgrade the gears and lockers. I drove my CJ around for a while with Detroit's front and rear on the street while got a bit sketchy at times minus the popping and banging in corners on these shorter wheel based vehicles. Managed of course, but would like to avoid that for the family.

Bronco will be a 90% Street, 10% offroad trail/rocks. 302 with C4 and Dana 20 T-Case.

So the question is simple:

I'm currently looking at ARB's front and rear, but also interested in maybe a posi-rear with a selectable locked front. Seems that might be a bit more reasonable for my intentions with this Bronco.

Lock Both front and Rear?

Lock only front?
 

1969

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2022
Messages
711
I’m in a similar situation where my Bronco will be driven mostly on the street, with the occasional trip to the Rubicon or other trails in the mountains. I’ll be opting for ARB’s. What I debate about is will I really need the front locker, I don’t plan to push the Bronco through super hard obstacles. Maybe put a rear in and see how it goes for your uses and if you find your self needing the front then get it.
 

eb-nutt1

Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
621
Unless you just have $$$ to spend, with that little amount of dirt time, I would go with a true trac type rear and a ez locker up front.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
6,653
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
I find a front locker to be needed much less than a rear. I have a truck with a rear locker and open front and am so impressed with its performance that the front will remain open. It gets wheeled a lot of miles, twice no front locker has stopped me, was an easy quick pull for the 6" it was an issue and motored on. Working on another for similar uses and it is getting the same treatment, it might even just get a truetrac. Both have a winch. However, I do get the desire to be locked in the front. I have plenty of vehicles that are and they do things that there is no other way it is happening. In rocks, say on the Rubicon, it can reduce the risk for body damage and make technical places a breeze.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,391
Getting to the point where it's time to upgrade the gears and lockers. I drove my CJ around for a while with Detroit's front and rear on the street while got a bit sketchy at times minus the popping and banging in corners on these shorter wheel based vehicles. Managed of course, but would like to avoid that for the family.

Bronco will be a 90% Street, 10% offroad trail/rocks. 302 with C4 and Dana 20 T-Case.

So the question is simple:

I'm currently looking at ARB's front and rear, but also interested in maybe a posi-rear with a selectable locked front. Seems that might be a bit more reasonable for my intentions with this Bronco.

Lock Both front and Rear?

Lock only front?
Define your idea of "rocks"
Open front and helical limited slip would be perfect for the street and offroad trails. But the rocks is the wild card.
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,899
All my rigs have ARB up front. Some have/had TruTrac in the rear (best LS in my opinion) but my preference is still for ARB. I'm upgrading the rear Sterling in my '78 Bronco to an ARB soon...managed to grenade the Auburn that was in the axle when I bought it (40" tires...stoutly built engine...heavy foot..)
 
OP
OP
JeepGuy

JeepGuy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
1,239
Define your idea of "rocks"
Open front and helical limited slip would be perfect for the street and offroad trails. But the rocks is the wild card.
Are you familiar with the Hammers out in SoCal Desert? I'm not racing them, but that was my playground for many years.
 

Madgyver

Contributor
Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,859
Detroit rear and welded front.
on switchbacks unlock one side upfront.
Detroit lockers need caution on wet roads.
 
OP
OP
JeepGuy

JeepGuy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
1,239
Detroit rear and welded front.
on switchbacks unlock one side upfront.
Detroit lockers need caution on wet roads.
Lol... I'm too lazy to get out and lock hubs each time I come up to something. My get down is generally lock the hubs at the trail head, then just shift in and out of 4 wheel drive. I have the twin sticks to help a bit with that too.

My little CJ-5 with Detroits and the mighty AMC 304 was a blast to drive in the rain 😁
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
828
I have a Detroit in the rear and an OX selectable in front.

The selectable in front is a mixed blessing. I love it when I need it, and I love being able to turn it off when I don't. But I don't love how hard it can be to steer with it locked, or how long it takes to unlock at times. If I lock it going up a climb and need to back up and reposition I have to unlock it, otherwise the front tires just go downhill, regardless of what I do with the steering wheel. And sometimes it binds up and won't disengage for a while. I've talked with a guy who's used ARBs and he says that's his experience too.

Overall I do really like my setup, but this is not ideal. I haven't tried an automatic locker in the front of a trail/rock vehicle, but I'd like to. They never bind up so they will always disengage. The caveat is that I will NEVER again have an auto locker in the front of a vehicle that I might drive on snowy freeways. I had that once and it was very dangerous with violent torque steer as tires gained and lost traction.

In the rear I like the Detroit, but it is a negative on the street. I find it easy to tolerate there (others don't), but I do notice it and would prefer not having it there on the street. I value it enough in the rocks that I don't really have any desire to change anything, but it is something to keep in mind.

A TrueTrac works really well as long as both tires get some traction (I have one in my pickup). But it acts just like an open diff if you lift a tire. I'd never consider one for a rock crawler, but if you're thinking of more mild trails it could be a good choice. And it's invisible on the road in my pickup.

A setup I'd like to try is an automatic locker in the front (since I don't drive my Bronco in the winter) and a selectable in the rear. To me that seems like it might give the best all-around performance, but that's just theoretical as I haven't tried it.
 

raleigh_bronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
1,487
I love the TrueTrac in front and rear - zero drivability issues on the street, but tracks very well through the mud and sand. They’re also extremely easy on your diffs and axle shafts.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
6,653
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
I’ve used Detroit and Grizzly lockers for a few decades. I may be missing the boat having never owned a selectable other than the factory electric that was in our FJ cruiser. I’m comfortable with their on street quirks and don’t find them objectionable. With radial tires the quirks are rather sedate, with bias ply they are fully there, modern tires make such a difference. I run the front hubs locked most of the time, in 2 wheel drive it is completely invisible. They do require hydro assist on the steering to turn in 4x4 just as you do with a selectable when it is locked. I have run them in previous and current daily drivers (like 30k+ miles per year). I don’t find tire wear to be terrible either. On trail one thing I’ve noticed as an advantage over selectable is with weight transferred to the rear on a climb turning is possible where a locked selectable just pushes instead of turning. Oh and I never hear anyone yell “LOCKER!”🤣

The trick is to run a twin stick and get good a using it. Some amazing maneuvers can be achieved with appropriate use of 4x4, front drive only and rear drive only along with proper application of the brakes. It works with or without lockers
 

Jakedog

Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
834
I have a Detroit Truetrac front and rear.
I can tell you that it handles really well on the street, but I don't have a lot of time in the dirt with it.
When the front axle was completed, we took it to a construction area where they were dumping large piles of loose drainage rock.

Going at it off camber in 1st gear (np435) in 2wd a tire would slip, but then grab immediately and keep moving forward.
It was the same in 4 low.
I vote Truetrac.

My daily driver has the best of both worlds with a limited slip rear and a locker. It's nice to have the limited slip for most situations, and the ability to lock it when needed.
 
Last edited:

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,236
It's been literally 30+ years since I ran anything but ARB in the rear of my Bronco. Over 40 yrs since I ran anything but an ARB in the front. (Feb '84)
Had a Detroit for 5 yrs in the rear waaaay back and would NEVER own one again in our country- ever. Towing a short trailer, any heavy frost, snow or ice on paved roads and/or off camber on ice on trails and HANG ON! Dangerous in winter

Nothing you can do because it locks when it wants and unlocks when it wants and isn't smooth. Drive/drove it then 30+K a year then.
 
Last edited:

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
828
.... Nothing you can do because it locks when it wants and unlocks when it wants and isn't smooth. Drive/drove it then 30+K a year then.

I'm not saying you're wrong to not want a Detroit in the rear for your usage, but automatic lockers are completely predictable when you understand how they work. There are no "lock when it wants and unlocks when it wants" surprises.

That said, they often aren't smooth, and can be a handful on slippery surfaces, so they aren't for everyone (and you're certainly not alone in hating them). So please do not take this in any way to be saying that you (or anyone else) should give automatic lockers another try. Your experience and your conclusions are very valid.

Automatic lockers always unlock when one tire wants to go faster than the other. Period. They never stick or hang up. When you are going around a corner they will always freely allow the outside tire to go faster.

And they always lock when neither tire wants to go faster than the ring gear. Period. It doesn't take getting on the power to lock them. Power has nothing to do with how they work. It's all based on relative speed.

But yes, they can be objectionable. Why? Mostly because they unlock so easily. When you are going around a corner they unlock because the outside tire wants to go faster. So if you get on the power you are only driving the inside tire. That makes it very easy to spin that tire. When you do, it catches up to the outside tire, and now neither tire is trying to go faster so it locks again, and they are rather harsh, so it locks right NOW. That makes it easy to break the outside tire loose too, and now you have the back end coming around.

If you understand that and are willing to "drive to the vehicle" and avoid breaking the inside tire loose, it's really quite easy to tolerate an automatic locker in the rear in most circumstances.

But back to your experiences. Driving in snow it's often impossible to avoid spinning the inside tire, so it can become a handful. Towing a trailer makes it worse, because you need to put more power to the ground to move the additional weight, but you don't have much more weight on the tires helping your traction, so you are that much more likely to spin the inside tire.

And when you are on slippery sidehills nothing comes close to the stability of an open diff (or an unlocked selectable locker). A spinning tire doesn't care which way it goes, so the only way to maintain stability is to not spin at least one tire per axle. The strength of all diffs other than opens is that they make it possible to put power to both tires so both tires will spin. So yes, for slippery sidehills selectable lockers are really the only option.
 
Top