Tom's Bronco front disc conversion... Help

[wegngis]

I need some feedback on the Tom's Bronco disc conversion. Everything was going fine until I got to the part when I put the new Warn hubs on. The axle doesn't stick out far enough to put the retaining clip on. This is due to the spindle not seating deep enough in the axle stub.

I've included pictures of the axle without the spindle, then shots of the new spindle and old spindle for reference. You can see the new spindle just doesn't seat far enough. I don't think it's a matter of the wrong seal, but I'm not sure. Thought appreciated.

 

[savage]

I have the same kit on my 74 and in my instructions it says the end c-clip will not fit. Here is a thread talking about that problem.http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240433&highlight=warn+hubsand http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208490&highlight=warn+hub+c-clip

 

[thegreatjustino]

Very common for the axle c-clip to not fit. Many just utilize the snap ring around the edge of the hub, but some also use a bolt and washer in the end of the axle.

 

[wegngis]

See how that spindle doesn't rest flush though? That's got me anxious, like I've done something wrong. Also, there's no play at all in the axle once it's all tightened down. Shouldn't the axle be able to bump in and out just barely?

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[thegreatjustino]

If I were trying to figure out the issue with the axle fitting into the spindle, I'd pull the axle completely out of the housing and try to figure out what was preventing it from sliding all the way into the spindle.

After all, if the original spindle slid all the way on, there must be something on the new one that's preventing it from doing so. If it's the machining/design of the disc brake spindle, I wouldn't worry about it as they are different in some places. If there is a incorrectly manufactured surface or something creating the problem, I'd be in search of another spindle.

Do you have the same issue on both sides? Does that side you're currently working on do the same thing with both of the spindles from the disc brake kit?

 

[RODRIG3911]

I originally I installed my TBP disk brake kit on my Dana 30. When I upgraded to a 44 and went to transfer over the disk brakes I had the same problem. In my case I found that the dana 30 required the spindle seal and the dana 44 did not. The dana44 has a oil singer that fits nicely into the end of the spindle and it cannot fit with the seal on...... looks like you have a slinger on your axle, did you remember to leave off the seal bro? It you have it on pry it off and try putting the spindle on

 

[hankjr]

What year are you installing on? I'm testing what I expect will be the identical problem today. I have a 71 with the Dana 30 style outers in my 44. I have a recent thread in tech section about Dana 44 outer axle seal surfaces and I got some good feedback and ways to check.

Hank

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245696

 

[wegngis]

If I were trying to figure out the issue with the axle fitting into the spindle, I'd pull the axle completely out of the housing and try to figure out what was preventing it from sliding all the way into the spindle.

After all, if the original spindle slid all the way on, there must be something on the new one that's preventing it from doing so. If it's the machining/design of the disc brake spindle, I wouldn't worry about it as they are different in some places. If there is a incorrectly manufactured surface or something creating the problem, I'd be in search of another spindle.

Do you have the same issue on both sides? Does that side you're currently working on do the same thing with both of the spindles from the disc brake kit?

The thing that's preventing it from sliding all the way out is the "well" inside the new spindle. The original spindle is deeper and allows it to sit flush. So, I would say it's the design of the new spindle. It's that way on both sides.

I do plan on talking with Tom's Bronco, they're not not open until Tuesday and I may not be able to really talk with them until Friday due to work.

This is a 68 on a Dana 30.

 

[Teal68]

If you are having the same problem I did......
I just did this and had the same worries as you. It was almost like the inner seal diameter is too small, but it's just really tight. Bolt the spindle on and then pry the axle out, and it will fully seat.

That was my experience. It may be wise to heed other advice before prying like I mentioned.

 

[wegngis]

Bolt the spindle on and then pry the axle out, and it will fully seat.

I tried this, all sorts of methods. I determined that there is no possibility to pry it because the axle is bottoming out inside the spindle. The spindle is bolted to the knuckle, so the axle isn't coming out any more, period.

 

[Teal68]

Measure the depth in the spindle and the the stick out on the axle. I'm pretty sure you will find sufficient depth. Bolt the spindle, stick a pry bar between the axle and u-joint, and force the axle further into the spindle. The seal just seams too tight and makes you think it won't go in further. Especially when you grab the old spindle and it goes right on.

 

[hankjr]

I don't know a pry bar is the ticket if he's in the same boat I am. The mic doesn't lie.....





Hank

 

[savage]

The big part of the axle doesn't go in to that spot, the smaller area where the needle bearing sits on does. Between the back of the spindle and axle slinger their is a couple of different seals ,here is a kit that show's what is their.http://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product/spindle-bearing-seal-kit-dana-30dana-44-66-77-ford-bronco-new The recess where the needle bearing is sometimes has a small flexible seal, Here are some pic's of the kit I installed from Toms Bronco and you can see that my slinger doesn't sit flush with the back of the new spindle. Plus the outer snap ring for the axle would not go on with the warn hubs.

 

[wegngis]

Mine fits fine, it's just too shallow. Circumference fits perfectly.

The new one on the right just doesn't have the depth.

 

[savage]

Hey Wegngis,my kit had a different seal for the axle, than the one you have,plus my new spindles were not that different than the old ones, just some small difference's, but my new hubs, I still couldn't get the axle snap ring on. Their should be a part number on the outer edge of the spindle, I would call them to make sure they sent the wright one. The seal that you put in the back of the spindle are you sure it's not for the back of the hub? I looked at the kits on Tom's sight and they show this style with the kits, http://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product/spindle-bearing-seal-kit-dana-30dana-44-66-77-ford-bronco-new

 

[savage]

Here's a pic of what seal I see in their kits.

 

[wegngis]

The instructions specifically said not to use the bellow seal on a Dana 30, which is what Savage's picture shows. Am I sure I about the right seal in? No, I'm never sure of anything these days. But the seal in the hub is different, and installed. It's just this darn spindle doesn't have the depth. The seal on the spindle fits nicely on the old slinger diameter-wise.

 

[DirtDonk]

See how that spindle doesn't rest flush though? That's got me anxious, like I've done something wrong. Also, there's no play at all in the axle once it's all tightened down. Shouldn't the axle be able to bump in and out just barely?

Not quite seeing what you mean by flush I don't think, but if you mean the axle is not slipping into the bore of the seal, it's probably too small.
And yes, when done correctly the axle shaft should easily move in and out noticeably.

The instructions specifically said not to use the bellow seal on a Dana 30...

Did the kit include the seals you're using in the new spindles, or did you source them yourself?
Obviously they fit, but they do look smaller than the old one.

Mine fits fine, it's just too shallow. Circumference fits perfectly.

The new seal doesn't look like it's got the same inner diameter as the old one. Am I optically deluded? Or is that a possibility?
Did you pull the axle out and try to slip the slinger area into the seal? If it doesn't go, that would seem to be your issue. You either have to find a larger press-in seal that fits your new spindle AND old axle shaft, use the newer bellows seal after all (if it can be installed that is), or no seal at all.
If no seal, you would still want to use that little open-sided seal shown in a previous pic to help seal at least some of the junk out of the bearing.

Might be worth a couple of more experiments in case that can save you from waiting until Tuesday.
If you bought the seal yourself, what number is it?

Paul

 

[wegngis]

The new seal doesn't look like it's got the same inner diameter as the old one. Am I optically deluded? Or is that a possibility

This is an optical illusion. The diameters are indeed the same.

First of all, I want to again express my appreciation for all of the constructive comments. It's late, I think what I will do is take video of the situation and post it in the morning when I've got light to work with. Then it will be much clearer. My poor writing skills are limiting the conversation.

I live about 3 miles from Tom's Bronco, so I actually walked in and talked with the guys there. I know I've got the right stuff, but I will get in touch with them once they open back up and get it straightened out.

 

[Teal68]

That pic helps. I see what you are saying about it looking like there is not enough depth for the spindle to go in far enough.