Track bar bolts worn? Need new tie rod too

[roundhouse]

My track bar has a little play. Installed new bushings. Play seems to be between the bushings and the bolt

Anyone made a shim from thin metal?


Also have too much play in the tie rod
Looks like the ends are not replaceable
Do i have to replace the whole thing? And if so. Wheres the best place to get one?

 

[TwoDalesDad]

Even if you could shim your tie rod ends....These are what make sure you don't kill everyone near by......might not be a part you pull from a dumpster...buy new! !

 

[TN1776]

Don't gamble with your life, replace the bolt and make certain that the track bar mounts are sturdy and not cracked both at the axle and at the frame.

My track bar mount cracked while on a trail 200 miles from home last year. I did not see the problem until I was home doing my typical post-trip examination and maintenance. I still shudder to think about what could have happened to my passenger and I. Not that it wasn't already, but the track bar and steering linkages are absolutely at the top of my list of things to check and confirm there is no wear.

As was stated above, the track bar is the only thing keeping your front end tracking in a controllable manner. It takes the full force of your steering and the full weight of the vehicle at times. Make certain all is okay and not loose/worn.

 

[71broncman]

Did you replace the bolt when you replaced the bushings? If you did and it's still sloppy I'd use a larger diameter, grade 8 or better bolt that fits snugly in the bushing. Tie rod; any of the vendors on here and maybe Napa, Car Quest, etc... .
Mark.

 

[DirtDonk]

And yes, the tie-rods (and draglink) on these rigs require that you need to replace the long rod with at least one of the ends.
On the tie-rod itself, the passenger side is indeed a short rod-end. But the driver's side is all that rod.
Which is why when replacing these, a lot of members here end up either upgrading to a completely different system or at least getting one of the modified stock setups.
It ends up being about the same price, or just slightly more, to replace with fully adjustable components that, in some cases, let you replace just a short rod-end the next time.

Less expensive parts aside, it's totally worth more money to get the fully adjustable versions of a tie-rod, and of a draglink especially.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and yes, the upper bolt is often well worn after all these years. Rust and wear take their toll.
My original '71 bolt was already WELL worn by the time I first had it off in about '79. Yours has another 30+ years potentially added to that.

If you didn't replace it then, it's absolutely worth trying a new bolt to see if it's a good fit into the new sleeve.
And even if not perfect, perhaps you also have to torque it down farther? We were just having this discussion in another thread about how high the recommended torque is from the factory. And why high-grade hardware is essential!

The upper mount is officially torqued to over 100 lbs, while the lower mount is over 200 lbs.
Check out that thread to get the exact torque values, along with the potentially recommended levels for the polyurethane type, with their minor differences to stock.

Paul

 

[Broncobowsher]

If the track bar is moving around on the bolt, the bolt is too loose. The bolt should be tight enough to pinch down on the inner sleeve and hold the sleeve solid. In a rubber bushing the rubber flexes between the inner and outer sleeves (that is why you torque the bolts down with the suspension loaded). With urathane the bushing does not flex like rubber, it slides on the inner sleeve (which is why they need lube and rubber bushings don't). Either way the bolt should be holding the inner sleeve stationary, there should not be any wear on the bolt.

As for the tie rods, no rebuilding, just replacing. Not sure of the best source anymore, been too long since I shopped for them.

 

[roundhouse]

I will put the hammer to the track bar bolts and make em tight as they can get. I don't see any way to replace the lower bolt.

I know better than to shim the tie rod ends even if there was a way to do it

Need to post up a video. The ends have a little play. But the thing that bothers me is the tie rod rolls over quite a bit when you rock the steering wheel back and forth

 

[DirtDonk]

Lower one not meant to replace, and usually not necessary thank goodness. But it's still possible for a truly worn out one.
They do come loose sometimes though. There is a tack weld holding it into the mount. If you look up from underneath, you can see it through the open bottom of the bracket on the axle.
If you do the same thing and watch from underneath while someone is steering the wheel, you can see if the weld is still solid or has cracked. If cracked, the lower mount will move just like a loose or ill-fitting upper one.

For the upper, before you crank down too hard, i would still inspect it to see if it's worn or just is not sized right for the bushing sleeve. And also check the holes in the upper bracket for wear. It's very common for the originals to be wobbled out over time.
If it's a new drop bracket however, that's not very likely. Here though, the new drop brackets are more solid when they're welded, rather than just bolted.

Regarding the tie-rod ends. From your description they're just worn out and need replacing. Any visible movement is worn out.
And the rotation is very common to see when the ends are really worn and loose. There can also be rotation when the bars are not properly aligned, or the pitman arm or drag link are in different orientations than stock.
But mainly it just sounds like they're worn beyond their useable life.

Still, a good video would be cool. Good to see any other issues as well.

Paul

 

[roundhouse]

heres the video of the tie rods :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRAF_yK9xn4

and the track bar
you can see the movement on the track bar, even with brand new bushings and the bolts cant get any tighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C9BYpffx98

I have a 3.5 lift, 33's

not much rough trail riding, mostly street & forest roads.
thinking bout getting rid of the lift, or dropping it to about 1.5

should I just replace it with stock parts?
maybe the ones with the adjustments ?

Use the over the top tie rods?

I have a track bar drop bracket, but havent used it,

 

[Quick & Dirty]

Either way the bolt should be holding the inner sleeve stationary, there should not be any wear on the bolt.

This. The bolt is not a pivot. The torque of the bolt should clamp the ears of the mount onto the sleeve so the sleeve cannot rotate or otherwise move in the mount. Clearance between the sleeve and bolt is a non-issue.

However, many aftermarket urethane bushings have sleeves that are too short so they can't be clamped properly without binding up the bushing, so the bolt is under torqued and becomes a wear point.

 

[roundhouse]

Whats with the tie rod rolling over?

worn out?

or is that normal?

 

[DirtDonk]

It's common, but not correct. In a perfect world it should just move side to side without rotating. Or at least with minimal rotational movement.

In the video we couldn't see how things worked together overall. Do you have a dropped pitman arm for instance? If not, why not? With 3" of lift and a stock pitman arm, you're going to have steeper angles and more tendency to rotate the tie rod.

With the dropped trackbar bracket in place, but the bolt in the upper hole (original location maybe? I doubt you could put enough torque on it to squeeze the sides tight up against the sleeve. Hence the loose bar.
Also, if the bolt is not sized properly for the sleeve (due to either having the wrong bolt or to excessive wear of either) then you need to get the proper bolt and/or a new sleeve.

Then, with your lift still installed, move the trackbar bolt down to the lower hole, install a dropped pitman arm if it isn't already, and see how things work then.
You're likely going to have to replace the linkage at some point anyway, but there are other things you have to do as well.

And since you're getting video (thanks by the way), take a shot from farther away so we can see the whole relationship. Looking at just a narrow view of a single component isn't always telling the tale.

Thanks

Paul