Transmission oil cooler

[toddz69]

The mishmoto cooler i posted is basically that cooler with ORB ports. It’s a LOT of cooler lol.

Actually the 6.0 cooler is a lot bigger - and I don't think it'll fit in our EBs. The two photos below show the difference in sizes - the V10 cooler pictured is the same size as the Mishimoto cooler and the Tru-Cool coolers, which I think are about the largest that will fit in our rigs.

Todd Z.

 

[Yeller]

Thanks Todd! I was always told the V10 and 6.0 were the same along with the same vintage DuraMax. All of which came about after I stopped working on that stuff for a living lol

 

[ba123]

How loud are these? I just bought the Derale Atomic that is wide and short with two fans and just curious…I’m leaning towards putting it all the way in the rear anyway, but curious if you can hear it.

Room in front is pretty limited solid to the power steps and although it might fit on h r pass side, I don’t think that’s ideal for me.

I could do in the old aux tank spot or all the way back. Any suggestions?

Maybe it’ll get more airflow in the far back?

@WPS 73 Bronco sorry to hijak but maybe this will help you as well.

Also curious on relay vs no relay…these two fans are only 7.2 amps total, I think.

 

[ntsqd]

What controls the fans, a PCM/ECU or just a thermo-switch? The former will want to switch ground and can't handle many watts. The latter won't care which side it switches, but will likely have a watts limit too.
I prefer relays unless I am absolutely convinced that the switch can handle it.

 

[ba123]

What controls the fans, a PCM/ECU or just a thermo-switch? The former will want to switch ground and can't handle many watts. The latter won't care which side it switches, but will likely have a watts limit too.
I prefer relays unless I am absolutely convinced that the switch can handle it.

I thought about ecu and setting conditions but it doesn’t need it. I got the Derale thermostat switch. Turns on at 180° and off at 165°. Simple. Power goes right through the switch. I have a relay I could use, but also easy to just use a circuit with a 10-15 amp fuse, right? I have some extra stand alone relays, but my Ron Francis panel does have a relay built in that I’m not using and could use that.

 

[nvrstuk]

I've been using a 7.3 cooler for 12 yrs. With 4r & with my 6r80.

I can wheel in 95 deg heat for hours with the 6r, slipping the converter ( a lot) and I have never been above 135deg. Got it up to 155deg once in the sand. Mounted in front of my radiator. Tight, but so worth no heat problems whatsoever.

I run cardboard in front of the entire cooler from November thru Feb. I paint it black so it'll look good compared to all those $100k EB's in the parking lot.

Absolutely don't use a 6r on any radiator w/o 1/2" or (-8AN fittings) like Steve mentioned earlier. Also, always use a stacked plate cooler vrs a fin/tube. Huge diffeence in cooling ability.

 

[toddz69]

I've been using a 7.3 cooler for 12 yrs. With 4r & with my 6r80.

I can wheel in 95 deg heat for hours with the 6r, slipping the converter ( a lot) and I have never been above 135deg. Got it up to 155deg once in the sand. Mounted in front of my radiator. Tight, but so worth no heat problems whatsoever.

You're a very, very fortunate guy! I've run one in the past in various locations in conjunction with my other stacked plate cooler (8.5" x 11").

Todd Z.

 

[nvrstuk]

Todd- no heat issues running both in series then? Sounds like lots of capacity for sure. Where you live you need it for sure.

When I first swapped in the 4r I used just one Derale cooler with an 8" fan, appr 13" x 8" stacked plate cooler since it seemed like 99% of the "swaps" I read about this was all ya needed. First real 90deg day of testing it with at least s20 minute or more of 10deg incline on a dirt road (old stagecoarch route) w/o the converter locked in & being in 2nd gear most of the way I saw 200deg and I had to pull over for 20min to cool it down. Extremely disappointed.

I then plumbed in the SD cooler and the fan never came on again.

Eventually pulled the Derale cooler and just ran the SD cooler with the 4r.

Only run the SD cooler with the 6r and in the winter (like I mentioned) I run cardboard covering it. Just seems to work really well.

I have about 1/4" btw the cooler and the grill and about 3/4" btw the cooler and the radiator. All works fine cooling 600hp also although most of you know I'm having "length of service life" with the 28" wide Griffin radiators.

What Steve linked looks almost exactly like the SD. I'll probably have to go with that if I ever need to since old SD coolers are non-existant in my area...

 

[toddz69]

Todd- no heat issues running both in series then? Sounds like lots of capacity for sure. Where you live you need it for sure.

When I first swapped in the 4r I used just one Derale cooler with an 8" fan, appr 13" x 8" stacked plate cooler since it seemed like 99% of the "swaps" I read about this was all ya needed. First real 90deg day of testing it with at least s20 minute or more of 10deg incline on a dirt road (old stagecoarch route) w/o the converter locked in & being in 2nd gear most of the way I saw 200deg and I had to pull over for 20min to cool it down. Extremely disappointed.

I then plumbed in the SD cooler and the fan never came on again.

Eventually pulled the Derale cooler and just ran the SD cooler with the 4r.

Only run the SD cooler with the 6r and in the winter (like I mentioned) I run cardboard covering it. Just seems to work really well.

I have about 1/4" btw the cooler and the grill and about 3/4" btw the cooler and the radiator. All works fine cooling 600hp also although most of you know I'm having "length of service life" with the 28" wide Griffin radiators.

What Steve linked looks almost exactly like the SD. I'll probably have to go with that if I ever need to since old SD coolers are non-existant in my area...

The one Steve linked is about 3-4" taller than the SD (PSD) cooler. You can still buy newer versions of the SD cooler - I have a Dorman version on the shelf in the garage (and it's black! Perfect for your rig!).

I recently replumbed mine from 2 externals only to running through the radiator and then the 8 x 11 stacked plate. Its first real test was a climb up a long mountain road (sounds similar to yours) a few weeks ago and my trans hit 230! Very disappointing. So I pulled over and let it cool down a bit. Put the truck in low range and it ran 210-220 up the rest of the mountain.

Todd Z.

 

[nvrstuk]

Major disappointment on the heat buildup. Driving test sure sounds similar... is the radiator water temp just heating it up?

Oil flow goes into trans first I'm guessing? Is it half-way easy to bypass the radiator with temporary lines to just run the oil thru the cooler and not the trans?

You do a ton of great trail exploring so I can see that airflow w/o a fan probably isn't helping a bunch at 10-15mph or so... hmmm.

This wouldn't be permanent (for me) because of the hassle of always having to look at gauges, hitting switches etc BUT do you have a converter lock on your 4r? With the US Shift I ran a converter lock and it hits hard but you can lock the converter in for those long 10mph climbs on hot days and not have converter slippage which means no heat.

Gotta remember that you will kill the engine when you stop and forget to unlock it. My dog stepped on my switch one day when I left her in the rig. I came out, started it up put it into gear and it just quit. Did this about 15 times and I backed around the corner on a busy street because I COULD go backwards but not forwards. Eventually noticed my button on my rocker switch was in the on position on my console and PRESTO, I could drive in forward again.

That was so funny (after I figured it out). lol

 

[ntsqd]

I'd be curious to reverse the routing, aux cooler first, then radiator and see if there's a difference.
8x11 might be small regardless. I tend to start with the 11x11 coolers.

Some PCM's lock the converter differently based on the switch setting. Our CTD will only lock the converter just prior to going into OD when the OD switch is "on" (default setting), but it will lock the converter once into 2nd gear with the OD turned off. Once it down-shifts out of 2nd the converter unlocks. Maybe there's an option for speed sensitivity in US Shift?

 

[nvrstuk]

My SD cooler is 8" x 23" (appr).

Ben- if you can protect it from sticks, rocks, etc then wherever it will be furthest from the exhaust and get some "road air" movement. Make sure you run steel, alum anything but hose to it so the the lines help cool the fluid all the way there and back.

 

[pbwcr]

Yes, heating the trans fluid is it what happens when you combine it with the engine radiator. Might be applicable in a freezing weather, but it is a lot simpler to separate the two functions. Individual heat control is the correct way to go.
Question is why do you think that is a good way to combine two distinctly differtent heat sources?
PaulW

 

[ba123]

My SD cooler is 8" x 23" (appr).

Ben- if you can protect it from sticks, rocks, etc then wherever it will be furthest from the exhaust and get some "road air" movement. Make sure you run steel, alum anything but hose to it so the the lines help cool the fluid all the way there and back.

Thanks. I decided to go all the way back for that reason of air flow, and then after doing so, made a final comparison of those coolers.

The one I had, the Hyper-Cool Dual fan one had 37,000 btu/hr of cooling capacity and the single fan, slightly larger unit HERE, has 47,000 btu/hr of cooling so I returned the other and ordered the larger and better rated cooling one...and also saved a ton of money since it comes as a kit with thermostat switch (so returned that as well).

And yes, running hard lines to it. I will most likely run Vibrant braided an lines (I already have stuff for that) from the trans to the body mounted lines this time instead of hard the whole run to make anything easier moving forward.

 

[ntsqd]

Yes, heating the trans fluid is it what happens when you combine it with the engine radiator. Might be applicable in a freezing weather, but it is a lot simpler to separate the two functions. Individual heat control is the correct way to go.
Question is why do you think that is a good way to combine two distinctly differtent heat sources?
PaulW

Because in cold weather I want the trans to warm up enough to evaporate any moisture in the fluid. At about the temp where that starts to happen (~160°F) the trans starts to work the best i.e. doesn't shift hard and isn't wearing prematurely. Which is why I plumb the radiator cooler last in the series. In certain situations that will work the trans fluid pretty hard. The fluid is the service replacement part, the trans is not.

Times Eleventeen on not using any more hose than is necessary. It's got to go there and back, may as well make that plumbing work for you.
Trans cooler plumbing that I recently did on the Wagon(eer), the hoses are only where the plumbing jumps from the trans to the frame, and from there to core support:

 

[toddz69]

My SD cooler is 8" x 23" (appr).

So that's one out of a V10 Super Duty.

Todd Z.

 

[toddz69]

Major disappointment on the heat buildup. Driving test sure sounds similar... is the radiator water temp just heating it up?

I think it is - it must not be cooling it as much as my second cooler (Setrab) was in most instances.

Oil flow goes into trans first I'm guessing? Is it half-way easy to bypass the radiator with temporary lines to just run the oil thru the cooler and not the trans?

I may do that again with the larger SD-style True Cool cooler just to test it. I know the current cooler is not enough on its own.

You do a ton of great trail exploring so I can see that airflow w/o a fan probably isn't helping a bunch at 10-15mph or so... hmmm.

This wouldn't be permanent (for me) because of the hassle of always having to look at gauges, hitting switches etc BUT do you have a converter lock on your 4r? With the US Shift I ran a converter lock and it hits hard but you can lock the converter in for those long 10mph climbs on hot days and not have converter slippage which means no heat.

I don't have a 4R - I'm still running my 700R4. I think there is a way to manually lock up the torque converter in lower gears but I haven't investigated that for my transmission yet. Since the True Cool can have almost all of its surface area in front of the radiator and be affected by the engine fan pulling air through it, I think it might be a good cooler to try.

Todd Z.

 

[nvrstuk]

keep us posted TZ, sure hope it works for ya!!

 

[pbwcr]

Pretty sure if you recirc the trans flow when cold to bypass the trans cooler the trans will heat up faster that any other method. Then a thermostat would come into play to start sending trans fluid to the trans cooler.
My EB and my TJ were set up that way and all was good. Temp in the pan of the trans reflected exactly what I wanted it to do. It took a lot of experimentation to get it all together. Excellent smart trans temp gauge is needed as well and the for mentioned Ford plate cooler. BTW. this was done back in the day before SD/V10 coolers came to my knowledge. I used 96 Bronco JY tow package coolers. Two in series for the EB but a completely different cooler for the TJ due to extremely tight packaging , so I found cooler with a high flow fan that barely fit.
None of my rigs ever used the motor radiator system for the trans.
Now days I drive JL with a very high fan flow trans cooler and the oem trans T shows all is well under all kinds of situations. That trans cooler is independent to the motor cooling. Pretty similar to how Ford is doing it now days.
PaulW

 

[nvrstuk]

I have exact opposite problem... trouble warming mine up, hence the cardboard. I have on my list to purchase an in line t-stat that will hold fluid in the pan till it achieves it's pre-determined opening temp (there are several temp choices) then it will open to allow fluid to my trans cooler.

I've heard enough horror stories from OE thermostat's failing all from different OE tranny's dying from overheating, that I have delayed doing this "upgrade". A friend owns the largest independent repair shop in town and he's shared more than a few of these stories with me. All OE.

I have changed oil and filter 3x for various reasons (Lead frame failure once) and "eagle eyed" the fluid and pan w/o any hint of moisture or sludge which in the 6r's case sometimes leads to sending the incorrect signal to the OSS and locks up the output shaft at any speed. Not good.