Tube bending

[77broncodriver]

I have been doing some research on roll cages, either to build myself, or buying from a vender. It seems like buying a kit would be the best option money wise after the cost of buying a bender and the cost of extra tubing from mess ups along the way.

My only concern is the knowing that I am purchasing a quality cage that will do its job of protecting passengers and all within my budget.

From looking at pictures of different cages I have noticed the bends seem a little different on some. Some seem very smooth and keep the same shape (picture 1) while others seem to have an indent in the bend (picture 2). This one is kinda hard to see since it’s a little blurry but hope you guys get what I’m trying to explain.

These pictures aren’t from any of our venders, just for examples. I did find a kit in my budget but have the indented bends. Are the bends that indent not as strong and should be avoided when buying a kit?

Evan

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[BroncoJAK]

A dented tube is a weaker tube.
https://broncobumpersandcages.com/

 

[Broncobowsher]

The upper ones are mandrel bent. A ball on a chain the same size as the ID of the tube is pulled through as it is bent. Maintains the diameter of the tube through the bend.

The lower is a tube that is just bent over a die. The outside if the bend the metal is stretched and will want to lay down a bit. The inside needs to compress and the shoe tries to maintain the curvature. But it will still sink into the tubing.

The tighter the radius the more severe the stretching and the compressing in the bend.

 

[SteveL]

I was able to buy the bender, 2 shoes (1" & 2"), and the material for 2 family cages for less than the price of a decent family cage. I already owned a welder and had plenty of bending experience from work so that helped.

 

[77broncodriver]

A dented tube is a weaker tube.

https://broncobumpersandcages.com/

I really like that one but it’s out of my price range with the shipping cost out to California


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[Boss Hugg]

it’s out of my price range with the shipping cost out to California

Get him on the phone. You never know where he'll be so he might can work out a delivery...albeit, I think CA is a lot further than he typically arranges for.

 

[Rustytruck]

I doubt any of our Bronco roll cages are made with a mandrel tube bender. If you want to up the strength of the Cage then go with Dom tubing.

Even stronger is super duper expensive chrome molly 4130 steel tube but that has to be welded by tig welding and heat treated afterward.

Just depends how much money you want to spend and are you planning to risk your life in a race truck.

Proper welding is means that holds the house of cards together. Id rather have cheep tube and superior welding, than superior tube and poor welding.

 

[svastano]

I bought the Family cage from WH and I am very pleased. When I looked at kits, and other pre-builts it was the largest in diameter and heaviest wall tubing. My guy that tied it to the frame kept saying that the cage was way over-kill. But can you ever have too much protection?

 

[Apogee]

...The lower is a tube that is just bent over a die. The outside if the bend the metal is stretched and will want to lay down a bit. The inside needs to compress and the shoe tries to maintain the curvature. But it will still sink into the tubing.

The tighter the radius the more severe the stretching and the compressing in the bend.

Just to add to this, most cage fabricators are using a JD2 or Pro-Tools style bender with a die/follower block configuration, not DOM bender. While these don't create perfect bends, they are generally more than up to the task at hand and have been used for decades without issue.

I'm pretty sure the WH cage shown above actually uses structural pipe, hence the larger OD and wall thickness (and corresponding weight).

 

[77broncodriver]

Any if you guys have experience with all4fun cages? I am now looking at either that one or spare parts kit from the forum. I want to run a bikini top in the summer and the shape of spare parts might make it fit a little funny.

So all of the cages probably have some sort of indent in them?


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[Hozr]

OK. I've built a bunch of race car and off road cages and here's the deal. Steel is EXPENSIVE right now!

Cage kits are great if you can install it yourself. There will still be cutting and of course welding and you still need to know how to make it fit. If you take it to a Fab shop it will end up costing more for less product. Shipping will kill the overall deal and your welder will probably hate you in the long run.

You won't find mandrel bent DOM (or ERW) like pic 1 for anywhere near affordable prices. Die bending is perfectly fine and is built into the design of the cage. What you don't want is CRUSH bending like they use in (most) exhaust shops.

Contact Virga Custome (FB) and I think CageDave on here? He's in Sac and builds some of the best custom cages around.

If you are in WA send me a PM!

 

[77broncodriver]

Yeah I am fine with doing the work to making a kit fit and got a new welder recently so am looking forward to a project.

Not opposed to having someone local building me one though because it would save a lot of time.

This might be a deal breaker. The welder I got is a miller 211 but only have 110v at the house I rent. Since the tubing thickness is about 1/8” I should be fine welding on 110 and not 220 right?


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[Apogee]

Any if you guys have experience with all4fun cages? I am now looking at either that one or spare parts kit from the forum. I want to run a bikini top in the summer and the shape of spare parts might make it fit a little funny.

So all of the cages probably have some sort of indent in them?

Any cage bent using a follower die will have some deformation in the tube, however that tends to be offset by the cold-working of the steel in terms of strength. Only mandrel bends will maintain the near perfect circular cross-section throughout the bend.

The All4Fun cages are a good product and there are several folks on here running their cages. He's local to me and I'm pretty sure that he used to use Albina in Portland bend up his main hoops, and while they can do mandrel bending, his cages look like follower die bends, but are most likely done on a much larger/more rigid industrial bending machine. Given the cost difference, I'm sure any business providing mandrel bends would advertise that fact, along with a much higher $$$ price.

I don't know if he still uses Albina, but if I didn't have access to a Pro-Tools bender, I would strongly consider one of his cages as a good starting point and then customizing it to my liking. That said, he can and will tweak it however you like as well for a fee. I'm pretty sure I saw a thread on here of someone wanting an extra tall option, some added gussets, 3-point seat belts mounts, etc., and it didn't sound like that big of a deal.

 

[Attac]

Any if you guys have experience with all4fun cages? I am now looking at either that one or spare parts kit from the forum. I want to run a bikini top in the summer and the shape of spare parts might make it fit a little funny.

So all of the cages probably have some sort of indent in them?


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Have 2 ALL for fun family cages. Heavy duty nice cages. I paid the 100.00 extra to have it prefit and all of the feet welded on. That saved me at least 100.00 worth of time. Still had to fit but was way easier. If you already have tie in spots done you wont want the feet pads welded on completely in case you have to adjust them to your hole locations.
Yes your 110 mig will be fine welding cages. Buy a welding blanket because you are gonna have to weld inside of the bronco to fit it
Chuck

 

[mattyq17]

Not opposed to having someone local building me one though because it would save a lot of time.



77,

I am having my brother in law build my cage as he is a fabricator by trade. I don't know what your budget is but maybe look around as a custom cage will not be cheap with the rates they charge in CA. You can see my cage in my build thread if you want to look at it. He is charging me $2200 for it and said that is about half of what he would charge a guy off the street. He is also tig welding it vs. mig and I know that factors in the price as well. It is 1 3/4" DOM, and luckily I bought the steel a week before it went up in price. Is it overkill, maybe, maybe not I know I sure don't want to have to find out!! Good luck in whichever way you go!!

Matt

 

[77broncodriver]

Not opposed to having someone local building me one though because it would save a lot of time.



77,

I am having my brother in law build my cage as he is a fabricator by trade. I don't know what your budget is but maybe look around as a custom cage will not be cheap with the rates they charge in CA. You can see my cage in my build thread if you want to look at it. He is charging me $2200 for it and said that is about half of what he would charge a guy off the street. He is also tig welding it vs. mig and I know that factors in the price as well. It is 1 3/4" DOM, and luckily I bought the steel a week before it went up in price. Is it overkill, maybe, maybe not I know I sure don't want to have to find out!! Good luck in whichever way you go!!

Matt

That is a real nice cage!

Thanks for all the advice guys

Evan


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[Crush]

I have seen where good fabricators of tube products can fill the tube with sand and then use a bender on it and the tube ends up looking mandrel bent without the kinks

 

[pcf_mark]

Not opposed to having someone local building me one though because it would save a lot of time.



77,

I am having my brother in law build my cage as he is a fabricator by trade. I don't know what your budget is but maybe look around as a custom cage will not be cheap with the rates they charge in CA. You can see my cage in my build thread if you want to look at it. He is charging me $2200 for it and said that is about half of what he would charge a guy off the street. He is also tig welding it vs. mig and I know that factors in the price as well. It is 1 3/4" DOM, and luckily I bought the steel a week before it went up in price. Is it overkill, maybe, maybe not I know I sure don't want to have to find out!! Good luck in whichever way you go!!

Matt

I would say you got more than your money's worth on that project! Really great design and fabrication!

 

[trekgurl]

this is over kill

I guess I went plumb crazy on mine %)

 

[BroncoJAK]

I have used the kit from Spare parts (David) before. Good kit, if I remember correctly it was 1.75". It had enough length in the tubes to cut and grind a little so I could configure them so the customer was happy with the look.