Update 1/30 New bronco... I think I already broke some things? did I??

[SaddleUp]

BTW, There are other things that could be causing this that go even deeper than those we have already mentioned. For instance a cracked flex plate or a bad torque convertor. The stuff we have mentioned above is just the most common causes and they are the easiest to find and correct.

 

[taxx]

You'd feel the slop in the shaft if that was the case. I doubt pinion angle is an issue since it was fine before the misshap. Seriously check for dirt. If no dirt and the shaft seems fine then get the tires rebalanced.

 

[Madgyver]

My guess is that it's the splines on the driveshaft. It got messed up in the mud.

 

[donks&broncs]

If it were the wheels or driveline, then the vibration would continue if you put it in neutral.

 

[Madgyver]

Damn, I just read the specs on this rig. digmy you got yourself a well built rig!! If you don't mind, How much did it set you back? It's ok if you don't want to post it. Even for the asking price it's a DEAL!! for what the seller put in there....

 

[Mark]

You lucky dog! You've got Kincade Bauer's old rig.
That drive line is fine.
That's an awesome trail or street rig. I don't know how deep your pockets are, but I sure wouldn't be using that to bog through mud !!! doh!
That's what beater rigs are for!

 

[digmy76]

You lucky dog! You've got Kincade Bauer's old rig.
That drive line is fine.
That's an awesome trail or street rig. I don't know how deep your pockets are, but I sure wouldn't be using that to bog through mud !!! doh!
That's what beater rigs are for!

Yes, that is Kincade's old rig. I have talked to him severaltimes and he is a really good guy. Dang, he knows a lot about everything automotive too!!! He seems to think that it is unlikely that I hurt the driveline, they are pretty tuff and top notch so,...... I did not get in the mud on purpose, believe me, I am not a fan of mud.

So, could someone brake down a scenario that I can go thru to eliminate the multitude of possibilities here and get to the root of the problem... an order of operations if you will. What things can I do in order to eliminate the possibility of certain problems mentioned thus far? i.e. putting it in N at 70 mph and see if the vibration goes away and that would eliminate the possibility of (something), etc......

 

[digmy76]

Damn, I just read the specs on this rig. digmy you got yourself a well built rig!! If you don't mind, How much did it set you back? It's ok if you don't want to post it. Even for the asking price it's a DEAL!! for what the seller put in there....

It is a long story, well not that long. The winning bidder on EBAY was a dealer in TN, who got in over his head on this one. I think he didn't realize how off road ready this was and figure it was more of a hot rod. Anyway, I emailed him once the auction was over and told him that if he changed his mind or decided not to keep it to give me a call and I would pay him what it cost him from the auction, plus the shipping he paid to get it from UT to TN. After a 7 ½ hr drive in my 76 I drove home 6 ½ hrs with this one (it is a lot faster and drives (used to drive) like a Cadillac). It ended up around $20,000. The great part about this is that he gave me $7,000 for my '76 (which had a lot more than that in it, but I probably could have realistically sold it for about $6,000). So, two birds with one stone. But, now this problem has me worried, I don't have a lot of green left to fix a costly problem. I hope that it is something simple, but if not I want to have it narrowed down to a few possibilities so I can save some money if I have to take to a shop.

 

[Jeepincj7]

So, you are who ended up with Kincade's Bronco. That thing is sick!

BTW, did you make sure that you cleaned every ounce of mud out the wheels? Looks at the back side of each wheel to make sure. Even a little bit of mud can cause the tires to get way out of balance and cuase the vibes. Since the vibe is intermittent, I would put money on the fact that its the wheel having mud still packed into the back side of them.

 

[digmy76]

So, you are who ended up with Kincade's Bronco. That thing is sick!

BTW, did you make sure that you cleaned every ounce of mud out the wheels? Looks at the back side of each wheel to make sure. Even a little bit of mud can cause the tires to get way out of balance and cuase the vibes. Since the vibe is intermittent, I would put money on the fact that its the wheel having mud still packed into the back side of them.

We have snow, sleet and freezing rain here in NC right now so I can't really get a good look in there right now, I will try Sunday afternoon or Monday, and let you know. I may have to take the wheels off. The disc brakes make it almost impossible to see back there.

 

[Jeepincj7]

We have snow, sleet and freezing rain here in NC right now so I can't really get a good look in there right now, I will try Sunday afternoon or Monday, and let you know. I may have to take the wheels off. The disc brakes make it almost impossible to see back there.

Take em off. If you can't see in there, then I guarantee you didn't wash it out.

 

[digmy76]

1/30 - Here is the latest. I noticed that my front hubs were locked in.....so after unlocking them the vibration has disappeared. What does this mean? Is it my front drive shaft out of balance (thru a weight maybe), or is it a U-joint, or the CV joint or yoke? I don't know!!!! Kincade (the builder of this nice vehicle) suggested taking off the front drive shaft and locking in the hubs and driving it around and see if the vibration returns. If it didn't it must be in that drive shaft or CV joint, right? I am concerned b/c Kincade mentioned being careful not to let something (a cap) fall out/off when I remove the shaft and loose the needle bearings or something. can anyone clarify or expand on this (pictures would help a lot). Now, what should I do and what will it mean?

 

[SaddleUp]

If the driveline angles are incorrect then it will do this. Unless the frontend was torn apart and the tubes rotated then you will likely get a vibration in the front at street speeds. I would probably check the u-joints and let it go at that.

 

[digmy76]

If the driveline angles are incorrect then it will do this. Unless the frontend was torn apart and the tubes rotated then you will likely get a vibration in the front at street speeds. I would probably check the u-joints and let it go at that.

According to the PO (which I believe) the drive angles were all correct and double checked again to make sure of it. The front is a high pinion D44, so the angle is only about 7 degrees. I could let it go for a while, since I will only use the 4wd at low speeds, on the trail. But, in the back of my mind it is going to be something that bugs me and I will want to have fixed.

 

[SaddleUp]

According to the PO (which I believe) the drive angles were all correct and double checked again to make sure of it. The front is a high pinion D44, so the angle is only about 7 degrees. I could let it go for a while, since I will only use the 4wd at low speeds, on the trail. But, in the back of my mind it is going to be something that bugs me and I will want to have fixed.

If the front is 7 deg. below the driveline angle then it isn't correct. This would not be unusual (it actually is a lot more unusual to find one that has the correct front angles after being lifted due to the work and expense involved) though since most people are more concerned with the front castor. 7 deg. will work fine for off road and slow speeds but at highway speeds it will exhibit the symptom you describe. I would ask the PO if the tubes were cut to rotate the frontend. If not then irregardless of whether it is a HP frontend or not the angles will not be correct.

 

[digmy76]

If the front is 7 deg. below the driveline angle then it isn't correct. This would not be unusual (it actually is a lot more unusual to find one that has the correct front angles after being lifted due to the work and expense involved) though since most people are more concerned with the front castor. 7 deg. will work fine for off road and slow speeds but at highway speeds it will exhibit the symptom you describe. I would ask the PO if the tubes were cut to rotate the frontend. If not then irregardless of whether it is a HP frontend or not the angles will not be correct.

If I were to have this problem checked out and tell then I would tell the shop to look at what "tubes" specifically and how exactly do you rotate the front end. I am not very knowledgable when it comes to this stuff, neither are any shops in NC (unless it is a Je*p).

 

[SaddleUp]

If I were to have this problem checked out and tell then I would tell the shop to look at what "tubes" specifically and how exactly do you rotate the front end. I am not very knowledgable when it comes to this stuff, neither are any shops in NC (unless it is a Je*p).

The tubes referenced are the axle tubes. To rotate them requires cutting the knuckles from the tubes and then rotating the knuckles to correct the castor. Even the H**p shops should know what is entailed. There is a thread going here that disusses this specifically from the last few days but I haven't followed it to see what suggestions were made. http://www.classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58397 In addition to rotating the knuckles the wedges on the front may need to be rotated. This could present problems with a HP frontend since the wedges are often cast into the center housing on the drivers side. Basically the pinion angle is set up first then the radius arms are set up and then finally the knuckles are turned for the right castor. If I personally ever get that critical I will put a 9" in the front with Dana 60 knuckles. (More likely I will do the 9"/D60 swap for strength long before I get critical with the front d-line angle)

 

[Kincade]

Hayes,

I strongly think that you are feeling the front driveline vibrate; I don't think I ever ran it in 4wd at higher speeds, only 40mphish and below.

The front driveline is setup properly at the transfer case (CV), and within 2 degrees at the front axle end; keeping this in mind, it will probably exhibit some vibration at high speeds in 4wd. Having said that, I'm not sure why you would ever want to run at 40+mph in 4wd anyway; any condition that necessitates that traction would preclude high speeds.

Rear driveline is set up 1* below center, but the antiwrap bar does not allow much flex upwards (hence, the very small amount of angle downwards).

Power steering; you probably boiled the fluid. I'd just flush it, those AGR's are fairly tough, i doubt you cooked the pump. Probably just air in the lines.

I got your message tonight; I'm out of town all week in CA, so I'm not too reachable. But what happened????? What the heck did discount tire do to it?

 

[SaddleUp]

Having said that, I'm not sure why you would ever want to run at 40+mph in 4wd anyway; any condition that necessitates that traction would preclude high speeds.

Exactly the point I was trying to get across. Sounds better the way you said it though. Vehicles that run in 4WD (AWD) all of the time have a differential in the tranfer case to allow the front and rear to slip. Even if the angles are right the fr/rr will bind to some extent If the hubs are locked and the t-case is engaged. The exception is that some people will run during the winter with the hubs locked and the t-case in 2WD so they don't have to get out to lock them in when they need them.