**UPDATE** Starter Problems... (Pic's)

[Slumlord]

Gang,

For those of you that don’t know I’ve been having some kind of electrical / starter problems. So far, I took the battery in to be tested and charged this AM but found that the battery was right on the money and didn’t need to be charged one bit. I thought I better pull the starter and visibly inspect it then take it in to be bench tested. Well, I didn’t need the bench test because it’s pretty obvious that my starter is trashed. The pictures below show what I saw when I pulled her off and that was a really messed up starter. The little metal plate inside it looks like it flipped up somehow and got caught in between the gear sprockets between the fly wheel and the starter gear. This, in turn, lead to some grinding on the fly wheel (as you can see from the 2nd picture). I’m pretty sure that the flywheel is ok, it’s pretty burly plus I’ll find out when the new starter is installed and I crank it. Geez, that would be really bad if the fly wheel was ruined, talk about some major work…
There were all kinds of metal shavings scattered inside the housing and, as you can see from the 3rd picture, larger particles in there as well. Two weird springs, a small metal peg and a twisted chard of metal. All I can say is, Wow.

I went to Napa and purchased a new remanufactured starter (you can only get reman’s, they do not make new starters, anywhere) with a lifetime warranty, their top of the line model, completely rebuilt. While I was there, I found that the starter I had was a rebuilt Bosche from 2001. Since it was this new, you’d think I’d have no problems, right? Wrong. It turns out that this starter was for a newer Bronco (‘70’s) and although it fit, it wasn’t perfect.

So, I spent some time cleaning out the housing so that there are no more metal shavings (a mix of air spray and a rag) or any other foreign particles. I have yet to install the new starter, it got a little too cold so tomorrow is the day of reckoning.

Thanks again for all your help gang, I’ll post on this thread how it ends up going.

 

[adidas]

trust me dude, i know your pain. i had the same problem. i kept buying remanufactured starters and they would stick... then grind down my ring gear. i ended up going to checker and droping the extra $30 for a new starter. i haven't had any problems yet... but i bet i just jinxed it.

p.s. arn't those starters fun to take out, then put back, then take out, then put back. -- i had burnt and bloody knuckles for a good two weeks when i had my started problems.

 

[Slumlord]

arn't those starters fun to take out, then put back, then take out, then put back.

Holy GOD, they are a pain in the ass!! I was pulling my hair out trying to take out the top bolt of the starter, there was just NO way to get to it! I went out and purchased some extentions for my sockets and some 90 degree sockets too. I also removed (1 of the 2) the radiator hose that goes into the firewall. Luckily, my roommate gave me a hand and we had it out quickly. I also purchased some of the Mechanix gloves and those have just about been the best investment I have made. No more bloody, cold, greasy hands, they take all of the impact.

I still have to put this thing back in, but I promised my roommate a growler of 1554 straight from New Belgium Brewery in Fort Collins so he's already agreed to help.

 

[evil69]

I would be glad to come help for some fat tire or breck brewery. Just call and you have to buy the plane ticket as well ( I already have done the drive not fun).

 

[broncnaz]

I was going to say I recongize the pin but not the 2 springs and clip. definitnely the wrong part. I had a starter come apart on me once the thick C clip on the starter shaft that holds the gear on came off just as the engine fire up then all of a sudden the engine lock up I thought I had blown the engine some how I couldn't get the crank to move towed it home took the starter off and found the cause that was a very good day only a starter not an engine.

 

[Slumlord]

Yikes!

Well, good news and bad news.

The good news is, the starter was the problem. I got her installed and fired her right up.

The bad news is, I'm hearing some crazy whining going on. I pulled the starter 3 times and re-seated it (thinking maybe it wasn't on enough) and every time I started her up, I get this grind/whine thing. I find, however, that when I let off the clutch after I start her up, everything is cool and all "bad" noises go away. She idles perfectly, but when started, I get that grind/whine thing, that's when I let off the clutch and everything is alright. Also, when I engauge the clutch back in after she's started, there are no problems, it's just the initial start up.

I really want to take a test drive but I'm afraid that something is really wrong, I mean, that sound isn't anything good! Could my fly wheel be screwed?

Please help!

Thanks...

 

[broncnaz]

It could just be the starter drive not disengauging smoothly because of the ring gear being chewed up. it may just be coincedence that it stops when you release the clutch. Try starting without pushing in the clutch. Also you may have more parts floating around in the bellhousing. The ring gear on your flywheel is replaceable about $15. since the noise stops I would drive it. as long as there is no noises you should be good.

 

[Slumlord]

Broncnaz - Thanks for the tips, however, I tested this quite a few times and I found that there should be no more parts inside the housing because I checked it 3 times after I popped the new starter in and out. Also, the flywheel ring gear isn't expensive, it's just going to be a real bear to get to, so I really don't want to totally ruin it!

Here's another snafu that I thought I'd throw in the mix (and my newest 'what I think is wrong' theory).

When I purchased the new starter, the guy at Napa said to me, "This isn't even the correct part for a '69 - manual - 302" so he went and got me the "correct" starter. He told me that the starter I had was for a newer Bronco with a 302 (a '70's Bronco). I just took the new one without thinking. Now that I'm investigating more, I know that the engine has been rebuilt, but perhaps the PO just purchased a rebuild from an newer EB and didn't know it. Basically, I think I may have the wrong starter.

Any comments on that one!?

 

[broncnaz]

The only differance in starters for EB with V-8 289,or 302 is between manaul and automatic trans my parts interchange book only shows 2 different starters for any 289/302 except for 63-64 260/289 no matter what vehicle it is. also the 240 and 250 straight 6 uses the exact same starters. although its rare you may have to shim the starter to get rid of the hang ups. but your ring gear is done for either way you look at it. you could always take a file to the edges of the ring gear to smooth the rough spots out but by the time you finished that you could probably just aas easily changed it.

 

[supermottl]

Glad to see your pretty much up and running. Sucks to have so much troubles.
Yeah, ring gear is prolly toasted. I'd just run it till it won't engage anymore. It'll buy you some time.
To replace the ring gear, you'll have to take out the tranny/t-case, take off bellhousing, take off pressure plate and alll that crap... Might as well get the flywheel resurfaced and replace the clutch if it's old, while your in there...
Good luck

 

[Slumlord]

Thanks for the tips guys, I really hope that the flywheel isn't too bad. I'm going to get the "correct" starter either tonight or tomorrow and see what that does. Hopefully, my flywheel is ok for now but I guess we'll see... :-/

 

[BwoncoHowie]

Your first starter tore up the starter drive gear assembly. Your ring gear still looks ok, the portion visible in your pic, and not the cause of your present problem. Just note that a manual transmission starter and an automatic transmission starter are the same but have different nose cones that place the starter drive gear at different distances from the ring gear. The last time this happened to me, I asked for my core back and took the nose cone off it and put it on the newer rebuilt starter. That pretty much solved my problem. In your case I would just ask for another starter because they prolly sold you one with the wrong nose cone on it. The drive gear scraping on the flywheel after startup can also be caused by the drive gear not retracting all the way. I know you are not looking forward to R&R another starter but that's what i'd do. ~BH

PS That ring gear should last at least till the next clutch job, then when you have your flywheel and everything out put a new ring gear on then.

 

[Slumlord]

Well, the saga is finally over, my truck is fixed

I went back to Napa and picked up the exact starter that I left as a core return (part number 44-9206), which was for a '76 - '83 Bronco engine. Turns out, the '69 starter (part number 44-9642) I purchased was the wrong starter! I found out from the PO that my engine is a crate engine from a newer Bronco. He simply forgot to tell me that little detail. Sheesh. I guess it was partially my fault too, I mean, I should have just gotton the exact replica when I first went to Napa, not tried to correct things...

Anyway, I put her in, fired her up and bingo, no grinding or whining just perfect starts every time!

So, thank you everyone for your help and posts, that's why this site rocks!!

 

[supermottl]

ROCK ON
I bet your a pro know and taking out and putting in those heavy-azz starters!!
good job