USFS closing camping access and off road travel... PNW

[nvrstuk]

So they are at it again... closing access to camp on USFS land unless you are within 30' of a road! Seriously, unless you are on one of the USFS "corridor" roads you can't have your vehicle off - road more than 30' in order to camp, picnic, go exploring on what is a road, looks like a road, but the USFS doesn't declare it a road anymore!

here we go again!


So I attended the latest USFS mtg here in Washington State so I could get 100% correct info before informing you all...

Here's the basics:

Our USFS is closing access to use of our land. Access to camping, access to streams, access to within 100' of any water with a vehicle, lots of "tightening up"...



If you like to camp 300' or more off of a USFS road you will soon be out of luck. There will be "corrodor roads" where you will be able to, but unless it's one of their corrodor roads you will not be allowed more than 30' off the road!!! This means anyone who has a hunting camp too!

Soon, no travel will be allowed unless you are on whatever their approved road classification is (they have a number for it) ...unless the road was built by them, you won't be able to use it....meaning, that if the road was built by one of the several hundred logging companies that used to log around here those who built the roads that the majority of the timber was hauled out of, meaning the majority of the roads that we used to be able to drive on for decades...we will soon be out of luck. They will tell you that road is already closed (since the USFS didn't build it) and that they aren't closing any roads, but that is a slight manipulation of the English language... I asked directly.



If you like to HUNT and set up camp somewhere on USFS land (I remember when it used to be our land), you'd better check to see if you will be allowed to camp there anymore...doesn't matter if it's got a road to it, only matters if it's one of their corrodor roads... if not, then you are only allowed 30' off the road!

They have a 2 1/2" thick book explaining it all...it includes land from Yakima/Naches to well North of Lake Chelan.

Comment period is open for a couple weeks...

I can supply the website addy and a few tips for helping us supply comments that they say they will "listen to" compared to an email that says something like "...keep the place open to all".

 

[SHX669]

They went to a similar program in the National Forests here In Oregon a few years ago - although they admit they dont have the funding and the staff to enforce it.
It's part of a " off road restriction " plan the Feds came up with - I'm guessing 10 years ago. Supposedly it is /was only to effect roads/areas that are environmentally sensitive . Of course that is up to their interpretation and to the local USFS employees. Some States were going to go to a " Red Dot - Green Dot " thing. Right now in Oregon it's our responsibility to know if a road is closed or not.
Several areas I hunt you're not supposed to drive more than 300' off of a " road that's meant for normal vehicle travel". Again up to some interpretation. And I believe this 300' is limited to spots that are "traditional camp sites " - as in people have camped there before.
Personally some of the places they've limited access to have been wonderful - creeks,swampy grass areas - as in " Elk Wallows " and etc. - I've chased down several " Hunters" on ATVs driving up and down Wallows and threatened to beat the crap out of them .
My concern is how crazy are they going to get with this . IF it's reasonable and will benefit Wildlife and Hunters I have no problem with that - a big IF - because we still have access to Millions of acres of land that we can drive on and the areas with the road restrictions are open to ALL other travel - foot - horse . Don't get me wrong - I don't know how good an idea this is but I also don't think we should be able to drive anywhere and everywhere we want !
Oh - the area i hunt where there are road closures - you're not gonna want to take your car or mini van . A few years ago turning off the "access road" to get to my Camp spot 300 ' away I blew a tire - and I was in 4 wheel drive low range doing about 1 mile an hour. So at least in this area the closures are in semi hard to get to places .
Hopefully if they proceed with this plan they'll use some common sense - "government Logic" -Oxymoron !

 

[blubuckaroo]

As a hunter, I have always enjoyed pulling my camp trailer through creeks and into some crazy beautiful spot. I'll miss that if this goes into effect.
However, if you get out in the woods much, you'll notice that not everyone is a good steward of our forest land. Actually, the worst case I've seen was a mess left by a horse packing group.

 

[SHX669]

I've had similar experiences with a mess the horse guys made ; one at a trailhead another about 11 miles in.
I'm anxious to see how far they go with this plan. As mentioned the particular area i'm familiar with the road closure is a good thing. There is no need to drive past where i camp . But and a real big but - I doubt if the same will be true of other road closure areas. It might screw us out of vehicle access - again not always a bad thing it just depends on where and how.

 

[toddz69]

We've had similar restrictions in certain areas here in AZ for a few years now.

Todd Z.

 

[blubuckaroo]

CA started enforcing their "licensed vehicles only" on forest roads, a few years ago. They aren't allowing any quads or side-by-sides.
A ranger tried to cite me for driving a trail on my Honda Trail 90. He said, no "green sticker" vehicles were allowed. I pointed to the CA license plate on the back and he had to let me go ahead.

 

[SHX669]

A few years back the USFS told me they were thinking of going to a plan where you had to be street legal to drive on the double digit roads ( usually paved or good gravel) and NO travel on the four digit roads - so that left ATVs - dirt bikes to the triple digit roads only. -- as in Road 66- 661- 6610 etc.

 

[Mark]

It's frustrating. Publicly owned lands are privately owned by the feds.

no trespassing allowed by citizens

Everyone should follow the credence .. leave it in better condition than what you found it. I've picked up plenty of other peoples garbage even.

 

[Wyflyer]

Now everyone knows how the Bundys feel

 

[savage]

nvrstuk , can you send me the link to that web site, we hunt on loop loop pass, and camp off hwy sr 20 loop loop pass, and we are well off the hwy.

 

[oleguy74]

they are protecting the garden

 

[nvrstuk]

I'll try to clarify... I'm trying to emphasize that I don't agree with travel anywhere on the land philosophy so I agree we need restrictions...

Anyway, this proposal LIMITS camping to within 30' of the road UNLESS it's in the special corridor areas or it's already a designated campsite.

You won't be able to wander off on that little two-track road 1/4 mile into the dense forest anymore to camp...period. Not saying across a meadow or a stream, but on an existing ROAD to go camp!

I attended their initial proposal about 8 yrs ago when they were coming up with this one...many of us voiced our opinions, discussed population density of campers in the few areas that will be left for people to camp -- Seattle city limits is 1 1/2 hrs away and expected to grow by 50K people/year, where will they go?

Go to: http://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=46467

then look on the right hand side of the page for (see below) and click on one of the areas you are interested in.


Request More Info

Comment/Object on Project

Public Comment/Objection Reading Room

Subscribe to Email Updates


Good luck and remember, every trail they close today is never (never had one in our County) ever re-opened. If you want to visit/experience your forest without virtual reality, get involved as they are closing thousands of acres every year to Americans that might not have the ability to hike in 10 miles or more to see an Alpine lake or a glacier...just saying...

 

[gremlin]

In Ca. they close most of the forest all winter long. Same restrictions for camping off the trail.

 

[SHX669]

I knew what you meant/were talking about Brian ; I was just trying to add a little more info for those who hadn't heard about this.
I have one cousin who was working for the ODFW and one who was working for the USFS at the time they were putting these rules together.
The plan was - in return for closing road access in some areas the USFS was going to work with local "authorities " and open more designated Off Road Areas - but the "key" wording here is WAS - things change - especially since Congress keeps cutting the USFS budget.

 

[nvrstuk]

I talked to a DNR (Dept. Natural Resources) rep who is waaay up the ladder last fall about closing "public" land...she said it was all about budget cuts...they aren't going to cut the 5 middle management paper shuffling desk jobs that were created the past 15 years, instead they cut back on the road repair crew (2guys/750 miles of roads and trails) and the DNR people that cruise the publics lands instead. I'll quit whining...just hard to watch this stuff happen more frequently... : )

 

[Mtgrizzlymn]

As a hunter, I have always enjoyed pulling my camp trailer through creeks and into some crazy beautiful spot. I'll miss that if this goes into effect.

However, if you get out in the woods much, you'll notice that not everyone is a good steward of our forest land. Actually, the worst case I've seen was a mess left by a horse packing group.

Way to many ass kissers to enjoy the outdoors like this anymore, if you don't get caught some piece of work will turn you in or drive you nuts running there big mouth about why you shouldn't do that. This shit pisses me off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sriha]

All it takes is a couple of irresponsible aholes to ruin it for the rest. I have spent years dealing with these people. Cutting locks, cutting trails around barriers, littering, vandalism, property destruction, theft. We used to allow access but not anymore, it costs way too much to repair the damage.

This is the big issue. Too many out there that don't think the rules apply to them. There are a lot of people who think they can us the park bike trails after the park closes its gates. Sad thing is a lot are the younger generation that were not raised properly and taught respect.

 

[Mountain Ram]

The problem with government restrictions is that the government doesn't have common sense and doesn't know when to stop. Saying that some 'common sense' regulations are acceptable is only allowing them to carry down their path- more regulations and then complete closure.

If they are saying that they don't have enough money to enforce the regulations, the logical- cost effective solution is complete closure to enforce the rules that are in place.

 

[blubuckaroo]

I hunt the Sierra Nevada.
For many years we were allowed to use a trail bike to go in and recover our deer. Now there are no exceptions to the rule. You have to drag it out on your own.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Ah, traditional hunting!

Well, how's this for traditional hunting?

There have been some interesting developments since that road was closed to motor vehicles. Bicycles!
Hunters carrying rifles, on bicycles towing game carts.

It's a great idea! I'm on board with it and I plan to do the same.
It's quieter and now our Bronco won't have to carry the Trail 90.
I just need to find a way to carry my bow.