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Valve Adjustment Question

Southbronco1

Contributor
Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
57
Hello Friends, I am brand new to this forum and just learning its functionality. So forgive me if I am positing this in the wrong area. A few months ago I purchased a mostly original 1970 Bronco with the 302 motor. I noticed it had a slight valve tap that over the last three months has gotten more pronounced. After doing some research I attempted to adjust the valves. There was virtually no vertical movement in the lifters and the adjusting nut on top of the rockers was so tight that it wouldn't have tightened any further anyway. Does this simply mean that my valves didn't need any adjusting? I have seen mixed opinions on whether lash relates to vertical, horizontal, or rotational movement of the lifter, so any feedback on that would be very helpful as well.

Thanks
Steve
 

thegreatjustino

Contributor
Red Head Grease Monkey
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
15,902
Loc.
Stockton, CA
To check valve lash, you need to have the piston for the cylinder you're checking at top dead center to see if there's any play in the push rod.

Did you start on cylinder #1 then rotate the crank one quarter turn before moving on to cylinder #2 and so forth until the valves on all 8 cylinders were checked?
 
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Southbronco1

Contributor
Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
57
Yes, I went in the firing order and checked each valve when the piston was at TDC for each respective cylinder. I could spin each lifter between my fingers but there was no up and down give at all. Even if there was, the adjusting nut was super tight with no additional movement. Should I be able to spin in my fingers? Or is it the up and down that I should be focused on?

Thanks so much for responding btw.
 

jckkys

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
5,212
The stock valve train in 1970 had positive stop studs. The nut was simply tightened with no further adjustment. I guess you found that out already.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,392
The stock valve train in 1970 had positive stop studs. The nut was simply tightened with no further adjustment. I guess you found that out already.

Correct. Non-adjustable valve train. The rocker arm nut is tightened down until it hits a positive stop (a shouldered step) on the stud.

2 things to check. Put a straight edge across the top of the studs. If one is proud of the rest, it is pulling out. Stock it generally isn't an issue, this is usually a problem when someone starts throwing speed parts like high pressure valve springs.

Another thing to check is the pushrods and rocker arms. The tips of the pushrods are supposed to be spherical. They often wear into the rocker arms into a conical shape. This wear reduces the lifter preload to the point you can get a lifter tick. The pushrod and rocker arm have just worn to the point they are too short now. No special tools needed, just pull a pushrod out and visually inspect. The wear is very apparent. Good thing is stock replacement pushrods and rocker arms are pretty inexpensive most of the time. You may have to shop around for it but they can often be found for a few dollars each.
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,899
Yes, I went in the firing order and checked each valve when the piston was at TDC for each respective cylinder. I could spin each lifter between my fingers but there was no up and down give at all. Even if there was, the adjusting nut was super tight with no additional movement. Should I be able to spin in my fingers? Or is it the up and down that I should be focused on?

Thanks so much for responding btw.

As already noted, your valve train is not adjustable. And yes, at TDC for each cylinder the pushrods can be freely turned with fingers. The hydrauilc lifter is in its "relaxed" state at that point, with the fluid inside not compressed.

What I do to check for loose/worn rocker train and/or rocker studs that have started to pull out of the head, is loosen each pair while piston is at TDC. The slowly re-tighten while spinning and wiggling the pushrod with your fingers. Note very carefully the point at which you achieve zero-lash..which is where the pushrod is in contact and seated in the lifter but not depressing the piston any. Then make careful note of the turning angle required to actually tighten the rocker nut down to its stop. It should be around 3/4 of a turn. If it's anything less than about a 1/8 turn, then you've probably got some worn components that need to be tracked down. OR..even if the preload distance is in correct range, you could have some worn lifters leaking down..
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
Pull the rocker nut and the ball and rocker. it is pretty common for the old rocker ball to wear into the bottom of the rocker taking out preload, if the oil has been neglected. make sure the push rod tube is clear and oil can flow through it. replace any worn parts and use new lock nuts on the rocker balls.
 
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Southbronco1

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Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
57
Thank you all for helping me with this. I did not realize that my valve train is not adjustable. I see so many videos that seem to imply that it was. Correct me if I am wrong but the only "adjusting" is simply to run the nut down to its positive stop. If there is any lash remaining in the push rod, then some larger is the problem, such as worn parts, etc.
Correct?
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,392
Thank you all for helping me with this. I did not realize that my valve train is not adjustable. I see so many videos that seem to imply that it was. Correct me if I am wrong but the only "adjusting" is simply to run the nut down to its positive stop. If there is any lash remaining in the push rod, then some larger is the problem, such as worn parts, etc.
Correct?

Correct. The list of what could cause the lash is rather extensive. Not only worn parts, but if the heads or block have been machined, incorrect machining as well.

About the only thing that it would not be is valve face wear. That actually tightens valve lash.

Adjustable valve train is a common aftermarket/performance upgrade. With a lot of different parts, adjustable lets you dial it in. Also mandatory for solid lifter engines
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
correct if and only if you have your stock heads and valve train. common upgrades were to take stock valve trains and make them adjustable for use with performance upgrades. since there are few stock as factory engines in 50 year old trucks there is no way for us to tell you what is actually residing in your Bronco. most people that went to adjustable valve trains also added guide plates for the push rods. so when in doubt look for those they are held down by aftermarket rocker studs.

https://www.cpgnation.com/attitude-adjustment-valve-lash-for-power/
 

sprdv1

Contributor
REBEL
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
81,964
Welcome aboard Steve!!!

Hello Friends, I am brand new to this forum and just learning its functionality. So forgive me if I am positing this in the wrong area. A few months ago I purchased a mostly original 1970 Bronco with the 302 motor. I noticed it had a slight valve tap that over the last three months has gotten more pronounced. After doing some research I attempted to adjust the valves. There was virtually no vertical movement in the lifters and the adjusting nut on top of the rockers was so tight that it wouldn't have tightened any further anyway. Does this simply mean that my valves didn't need any adjusting? I have seen mixed opinions on whether lash relates to vertical, horizontal, or rotational movement of the lifter, so any feedback on that would be very helpful as well.

Thanks
Steve
 

half cab

Contributor
Guru Bronco
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
16,288
What type fuel are you running? Octane? I had to put some of this miserable ethanol in mine a couple years ago and the noise of lifters chattering was awful.

Am blessed to have a station close that sells ethanol free.
 
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Southbronco1

Contributor
Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
57
I have been running high octane ethanol gas, but have recently learned of a station a few miles away that sells ethanol-free. Might have to try that.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,743
Just to add a little to what the others have already said, some engines have such a precisely fitted rocker arm to pushrod end that even when the valve is open and things are under the extra pressure, you can still turn the pushrod with your fingers.
It might be notably harder to turn, but the point is that it can still be turned even while under pressure. That's why when setting lash on an adjustable valvetrain you use up-and-down motion rather than spin.

And regarding the ticking sound, how old is the engine and with how many miles? Might just be getting sticky in there. We haven't had a good "snake oil" discussion lately, so now might be a good time.
If your engine is older, or has perhaps not had good maintenance in the way of oil changes, or has run hot or used cheap oil, or has just sat around most of it's life, you might just have some gummed up lifters. In which case some oil additive designed to disolve the deposits might just work.
They're not the miracle cures they're made out to be, but they do have their place and can work. And at a few bucks a can, don't hurt to much to try even if they don't work in the end.
If you fee like it then, and are driving the Bronco regularly now, a can of additive that says "frees up sticky rings and quiets noisy lifters" (seems to be the way it's worded most of the time) would be a good thing to add and drive around a bit with.
If your oil is relatively fresh, just put it in and go. If you're about to change the oil, then wait until you do to add the cleaner.

In my case, the stuff worked great on my '71's engine. Did not fix it permanently, but got me another 30k miles out of it before I had to replace the lifters. Saved me some hassle and money and lungs, since at the same time it stopped smoking, quieted down nicely, and my oil consumption went from 1 quart per 500 miles to 1qt per 5,000 miles!
So yeah, it worked for me and I'm still a fan even though it hasn't worked in every case.
But it's worked enough times to make me a believer.

Paul
 

jckkys

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
5,212
There's almost no way to identify a collapsed lifter without pulling the intake manifold and examining the loose lifter. Paul's idea of using an additive, has worked for me several times. When it didn't I found one or more lifters that had bottomed out internally and varnish wouldn't let the lifter refill. Soaking in lacquer thinner cured this by dissolving the varnish. If additives don't work I would pull the intake and soak the lifters. If the noise isn't a collapsed lifter look for a stud starting to pull out. They were just pressed in so they can pull out.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,392
To that I have also seen good used lifters that don't fully expand. Full of oil and already preloaded. No air pocket inside to expand them like new ones. They don't fully expand until there is oil pressure in them.
 

Goboysgo

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Messages
22
Hello Friends, I am brand new to this forum and just learning its functionality. So forgive me if I am positing this in the wrong area. A few months ago I purchased a mostly original 1970 Bronco with the 302 motor. I noticed it had a slight valve tap that over the last three months has gotten more pronounced. After doing some research I attempted to adjust the valves. There was virtually no vertical movement in the lifters and the adjusting nut on top of the rockers was so tight that it wouldn't have tightened any further anyway. Does this simply mean that my valves didn't need any adjusting? I have seen mixed opinions on whether lash relates to vertical, horizontal, or rotational movement of the lifter, so any feedback on that would be very helpful as well.

Thanks
Steve
Any updates on your noise, valve tap, lifters, pushrods, rockers, adjustments, non-ethanol gas and/or snake oil etc.? I'm just curious I may be headed down the same path.

Thanks Lucas
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,237
Welcome aboard GoBoysGo...

X3 on adding an oil additive to possibly help with a "sticky lifter". It used to be pretty common back in the day. Because of it's high detergent qualities I used to use auto transmission fluid, like Dexron. Add 1 qt (don't overfill, drain out a qt if needed) and when the "clicking" stopped run it another week and change the oil.

This was very common 50 yrs ago and guess what? Your engine was designed and built about 50 yrs ago... :)

Best of luck, adding a can of miracle oil will not hurt your engine. Give it a try after checking all suggestions above about wear, etc.
 
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