Valve springs

[bronconut73]

I built my Windsor in the late 80's and early 90's....it evolved over time when I had cash to spend.
College student budget but I still did pretty good.
Never could swing the cost of the whole Edelbrock top end package all at once.

I went to Super Shops (remember them?), where I later worked. They set me up with an Erson cam that almost matched the Edelbrock cam specs perfectly.
Then later I,
Massaged the factory heads a little, not much but a little. Had my very conservative grandfather over my shoulder, lol. Probably didn't make much of a difference in performance. I was only about 19 at the time.
But I was a "bolt-on" King, lol

Harland Sharp roller rockers (1.7),
Erson cam,
Erson guide plates and studs,
Comp Pushrods (hardened of course),
Rhoades lifters,
Erson timing gear,
Erson valve springs,
Etc...

I installed everything but the Erson valve springs.
The engine was assembled by the time i purchased the performance valve springs and i didn't have the (then uncommon) pneumatic tool to keep your valve from dropping while you put on the spring.

Ran pretty good with everything but the performance springs installed.
So they sat on the shelf for the last 30 or so years, lol. I can't even find them at the moment.
A new performance oriented valve spring kit is anywhere from $60 bucks to $200 bucks.

Sooo....is it worth it to do it now?

I have always noticed a bit of valve float after 4k rpm. Those Rhoades "bleed down" lifters don't even pump up until 3.5k rpm. Just always worried i was leaving a lot of power on the table....

Should I just leave it alone?

 

[blubuckaroo]

All I can suggest is to find a good machine shop. They'll take your cam specs and check your spring pressure and rate. They will either recommend a spring or shim what you already have.
This is a very important process, often left out with home built engines, and cam changes.

 

[bronconut73]

Thank you Blu.

I remember the Edelbrock package that I couldn't afford came with Edelbrock valve springs.
Since my cam spec is so similar to the Edelbrock I was thinking I could use those springs. I looked them up and they are Edelbrock's lighter spring, obviously higher pressure than stock.

If I did use those, can I use my stock keepers, locks, retainers?

 

[blubuckaroo]

Thank you Blu.

I remember the Edelbrock package that I couldn't afford came with Edelbrock valve springs.
Since my cam spec is so similar to the Edelbrock I was thinking I could use those springs. I looked them up and they are Edelbrock's lighter spring, obviously higher pressure than stock.

If I did use those, can I use my stock keepers, locks, retainers?

Better to call Edelbrock.

 

[Master Chief]

Rhoads lifters are not recommended for street use. The company even notes it on the box. Think about your normal driving rpm range. As you mentioned, Rhoads do not fully pump up until 3500 rpm.

My 70 mph cruise rpm is 3200. I had them in my 331 for about 300 miles then swapped them out for a set of Comp lifters. World of difference because my valves actually open.

 

[bronconut73]

Rhoads lifters are not recommended for street use. The company even notes it on the box. Think about your normal driving rpm range. As you mentioned, Rhoads do not fully pump up until 3500 rpm.

My 70 mph cruise rpm is 3200. I had them in my 331 for about 300 miles then swapped them out for a set of Comp lifters. World of difference because my valves actually open.

I was thinking about this too......

 

[bronconut73]

I was just talking with my wife and she pulled all of my receipts from way back then.
She said that she didn't see a Rhoades lifters receipt.
But she did see a Crane lifter receipt. I got excited for a second, until I realized that these Crane lifters are also bleed down lifters, lol, damn it....it was nearly 30 years ago...i didn't remember buying the Crane bleed down lifters...i know i wanted Rhoades. These Crane bleed down lifters are still around and do the same thing as the Rhoades.... Just found them again.
As i recall the idea was to run a slightly larger cam than I should but keep low rpm torque ...

But i think i will get some regular lifters as suggested.

But they are still around if someone might be interested.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Crane-Cams/271/99380-16/10002/-1

 

[bronconut73]

I remember the Edelbrock package that I couldn't afford came with Edelbrock valve springs.
Since my cam spec is so similar to the Edelbrock I was thinking I could use those springs. I looked them up and they are Edelbrock's lighter spring, obviously higher pressure than stock.

If I did use those, can I use my stock keepers, locks, retainers?

 

[rmk57]

You should be able to use the stock retainers, keepers as long as the valve spring installed height is at the correct spec.

 

[bronconut73]

You should be able to use the stock retainers, keepers as long as the valve spring installed height is at the correct spec.

So I may need to have shims on hand?

 

[blubuckaroo]

Even springs that are made for your particular cam should be set up and shimmed properly. There are just too many variables in the head to just throw a set on and expect it to be right.
The process isn't something normally done by home engine builders. The equipment necessary isn't in most home garages. A good machine shop will set your up for very little cost.
This Comp Cams Video touches on the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nQnxInXgic

 

[rmk57]

So I may need to have shims on hand?

Yes, you may need shims or machine the valve spring seat. you can also use different length locks to go up or down on installed height.

I would do what blubuckaroo suggested and take it to a competent engine shop and have them set it up for you.

 

[brewchief]

If you are thinking about replacing lifters now might be a good time to go to a hydraulic roller cam, with the reduced zinc in todays oil it's become more common to lose a lobe on a flat tappet cam then ever before.

 

[blubuckaroo]

If you are thinking about replacing lifters now might be a good time to go to a hydraulic roller cam, with the reduced zinc in todays oil it's become more common to lose a lobe on a flat tappet cam then ever before.

Even more reason to weigh and shim the valve springs.
Roller cam spring pressures are a lot higher than with flat tappet cams.

 

[Rustytruck]

When I was fooling with this stuff my small block heads always had to have the spring pockets machined so check this before you start pulling stuff apart.

 

[bronconut73]

I am so glad I have you guys.


You fellas have all kind of taken my Dad and my Grandfather's place....

They are who I called on before y'all...

 

[DJs74]

Really important to have the valve train measured and setup as stated by the others. You'll need your valve spring specs as it'll give the installed height, coil bind height and the proper seat and open pressures.
I notice you list 1.7 ratio for the rockers... this means your are getting more lift than with the intended 1.6 ratio... which is fine but will have an effect on the spring at MAX lift and coil bind. The camshaft lobe lift is what it is but your 1.7s are going to open the valves further, which creates additional pressure and increases the chance for coil bind.

For example, if your camshaft lobe lift is 0.350"... with the normal 1.6 ratio rocker arms, your valve lift would be 0.560" but with the 1.7s, you'll be at 0.595" of valve lift.

If you decide to have a local shop set your cylinder heads up, just let them know all your component information.

It's likely you can use the existing retainer and keepers depending on their condition and the diameter of the new springs... but it'll need to be verified as well as all the other things by the shop.
FWIW, machining the spring pockets or adding shims are likely to obtain the correct installed height and seat pressure... rarely can you just assemble the spring and its right - close, yeah but exact, probably not.

Good luck, hope you're able to use the new springs.


DJs74