wanted: advice for nube - tub, t-case, engine, locker, parts salvage

[bjlarson]

What I Have:
1974 recently acquired, body questionable (midwest / maybe better parts truck?)
C4 trans
Dana 20 tc - j type
Dana 44/ 9" with LS option
3.50 factory gears
302 not running

Intentions:
Daily driver, possible show quality?
Also hunting rig /colorado rockies
Fully capable/equiped in event of ever being sold
(want it done right, but still want to enjoy it for a long time)

Tentative Plans:
2-1/2"sl, 1"bl (to allow for man trans)
33" tires
4.56 gears
Nv3550 5-spd trans
Detroit rear, true-track front
Re-build existing 302 with roller cam/rockers
4 wheel disk brake with booster

Questions:
Body rough (midwest climate-don't want to build to rust out in 7-8 years) - recommend tera comp or bronco designs fiberglass tub?
Is it a bad idea to install steel doors,front fenders,top on fiberglass tub?

Transfer case (condition unknown)- recommend rebuild with twin stick kit add-on for j-type dana 20, or or for cost difference buy/find rebuilt t-type to simplify/avoid twin stick?

Any recommendations or sources for cummins 4bt (approx cost?) or crate 302 (coyote?) V. rebuild existing 302 (assuming factory)?

Lockers - existing LS (track-lock) viable for front end only?

What is the best option to find a home for old parts no longer needed which may or may not be in running condition (will of course disclose information to possible buyers) to be "green" and avoid scrapping where applicable?


I appologize in advance if any of these are naive/stupid questions.
Have mechanical aptitude but limited experience and space (1/2 of 2-1/2 car garage).

Any help or direction is greatly appreciated.

 

[broncnaz]

Welcome
dont ask much do you.;D
your basic list sounds good although I wouldnt bother rebuilding the 302 with a roller cam just get a roller block or stick with a flat tappet cam and rebuild the current block. rear discs are not really needed but if thats what you want then go for it.
cant really answer the body question but I would say that steel doors may not be the best thing to bolt ot a glass tub.
just rebuild the t case they are fairly tough and usually dont need much.
4bt well your probably looking at $1600 just for the engine and it may need rebuild overall the cost will be up there to swap it in I'd say $5K+ and probably closer to 10K once all is done. not sure how well a nv3550 would hold up behind it.
Coyote engine well again your looking at least $6K just for the engine then you need to get a transmission and t case behind it so your well up there in the money. basically a lot of custom work there which may cost you. IMO I dont think that the coyote engine is a good swap canidate but thats my opinion.
Front trac loc is good rear not so good but they work. they just not 100% like a real locker.
best option for getting rid of old parts our classifieds theres always someone willing to take old parts off your hands.

 

[Ranchtruck]

You won't be able to use the front carrier with 4.56 gears anyway so it's a moot point. A tru-trac would be a good replacement.

Tentative Plans:
2-1/2"sl, 1"bl (to allow for man trans)
33" tires
4.56 gears
Nv3550 5-spd trans
Detroit rear, true-track front
Re-build existing 302 with roller cam/rockers
4 wheel disk brake with booster

Sounds like a good combo. With the 1" body lift and the planned engine work, you might as well go to a 94-97 351w F4te block. Roller cam ready, reasonablly easy to find, and the taller deck height is compensated for by the 1" body lift.

I'm not sure about the NV because it needs adapters at both ends and it wasn't intended to be a v8 transmission stock. A M5od-r2 out of a F150 doesn't need any adapters if you use a ford np205 transfer case, or just the zf5 adapter if you keep the d20. It can also use all the other zf5 adapter parts sold by the bronco parts houses. It's also an older transmission so it's easier to find used and it came behind a v8 in a heavier truck from the factory.
M5OD-R2 3.91 2.24 1.49 1.00 0.80
NV 3550 4.01 2.32 1.40 1.00 0.78
The gear splits are about the same.

How bad is the body rot? Do you have pictures?

Oh, and you never get back what you put into an older truck if you plan on selling it at market prices. So build it the way you'll enjoy it because that's how your $$$ get's returned. It's not an investment, it's an entertainment expense.

 

[bjlarson]

Thanks for the feedback. I am also amazed at the amount of information available on this site.
I wish I could say that this was going to be a restoration project, but being realistic my gut tells me project Green Hornet is going to be an almost completely new build (the name came from the number of hornets and nests discovere when I got the green beast home and unloaded).

Broncnaz-
I was originally gung-ho looking forward to the motor work (the extent of my limited experience), but with the to-do list on this project rapidly growing I will definitely look at other options.

Also good to know regarding mix/match of the steel door/fiberglass tub - I thought that may be the case.
For the $ difference (and IF I go glass) is one of the manufacturers recommended over the other?

Ranchtruck-
I will also go back to the drawing board and do some more homework with respect to the transmission. From the limited research I've been able to do, the nv seemed like a viable option for a capable and warrantied model, but I was hung up on the twin-shift and adapters required for the J-type d20. I will definitely see what I can find locally that may be a better match.

As far as the body, the front fenders have already been replaced and are OK, the rears need minimal patching. Nearly every inner panel will need some patching if not replacement.

I also totally agree that I will never get back what I put into it, except for the satisfaction, entertainment value, as well as pride recieved it. I just want to build it right and with the proper due-dillegence (I was an engineer in a past life and tend to over-analyze everything).

Looking forward to the journey.

Thanks again,

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The NV3550 is a fine tranny for these Broncos as long as you haven't gone for big power numbers on the motor. Fits as if it were made for a Bronco , even with adapters , iirc , it is within 1" of of the stock trannys length.
I have yet to install mine ... new motor not back yet , it will go in with it.
4BT - waaaay too much torque for a 3550 , try a 4500
Mild 351 - good to go
mild 302 - good to go
M5OD - another good choice
For what you want to do with the Bronco , you don't want big HP numbers anyways , you'll be unhappy most of the time unless you went all the way to a 408 , which even in mild form , will have enough power to pretzel all of the stock drive components behind it , which means even more $$$.

As always ,top priorities for where you are starting ;
Rule #1 : Make it stop and go correctly first , then start making it look pretty.

What I am doing with my build is focusing on everything under the body first. I've bought a few odds and ends over the years , but I've saved up a bunch and I am just now starting to spend it.
I think I've got just about enough to do everything I want with the frame , suspension , drivetrain , etc . I may pull the body , set it off to the side for awhile , get everything below it in tip top shape , then replace the body and start driving and saving again.

Just my plan , think long and hard about what you want , what you can afford right now and make some type of sensible plan that will fit your desires.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

One thing that stuck out in your post ,

possible show quality AND hunting duty

by the time you spend what it would take to have a show truck , you won't be beating it down the trails.
by show , I'm certain you don't intend Barrett/Jackson concourse type quality , but still , a nice straight CLEAN Bronco ..... = $$,$$$.$$

 

[Nightstick]

As always ,top priorities for where you are starting ;
Rule #1 : Make it stop and go correctly first , then start making it look pretty.

What I am doing with my build is focusing on everything under the body first. I've bought a few odds and ends over the years , but I've saved up a bunch and I am just now starting to spend it.
I think I've got just about enough to do everything I want with the frame , suspension , drivetrain , etc . I may pull the body , set it off to the side for awhile , get everything below it in tip top shape , then replace the body and start driving and saving again.

Just my plan , think long and hard about what you want , what you can afford right now and make some type of sensible plan that will fit your desires.

I can't agree more. If this is your first attempt at rebuilding a vehicle it's even more important you stick to that plan. When a year passes and you still only have a pile of parts sitting in your garage it has a way of sucking the motivation right out of you. If you can do some mods/fixes to get it running and driving SAFELY, do those first and drive it for a while if only around the block. Try to attend a bronco roundup and look at some other folk's rigs to give you some ideas as well.

A mild 302/5.0 will probably more than suit your needs, and you can stay with the plan of having the NV3550 that way. It's a good tranny, but the adapters are a bit pricey. Why the aversion to twin sticking? Most people choose to twin stick for better operation, not just rock crawling. And it looks cool. I say rebuild it yourself and twin stick it, just my $0.02

Most of all, in keeping with the "do little mods as you go" plan will also help you decide if you really need that fiberglass body. That's a huge expense, so unless you just have a pile of cash sitting around it'll suck up the funds very quickly. Not only do you have the expense of the body, then you'll want to get it painted and whatnot, which is another couple grand. Just trying to put things in perspective for ya...

 

[lowbush]

Here is my 2 cents, if you are going to go to a 4BT then I would forgo a rebuild on the 302, you are not going to get your money back out of it, I would just get it running good and put that time into rebuilding the 4BT, which you will be doing if you don't want to spend 6-7k out of the gate on an engine.

That being said, I love the 4BT but I think it has become more expensive than it is worth, at this point, I would probably figure out how to wedge a 6BT under my truck to save money. As crazy as that sounds a good strong 12 valve 6BT can be found on a rust bucket 90's dodge for less than $2500 truck and all. The only way I have seen to consistently find cheap 4BT's is to buy a gen-set with one and convert the fuel system over to the automotive fuel system.

With that in mind, there are a lot of good 4 and 6 cylinder diesels that don't get a lot of love, The 4 cyl Isuzu is a good engine and can be found in all of their box trucks, you can get them for cheap salvage and save a lot of coin over a 4BT. The 6.5 Detroit in the old Chevy's is a good engine, it got a bad rap for being confused with the 5.9 olds that was a gas engine converted to a diesel but the two have nothing in common. The 6.5 is proven it is just not an engine that you can turn up to 400 hp reliably. Though getting 250 to 300 out of it is no problem. These things can be picked up for a song off of the government auctions sites, many are new in crate and never installed.

Finally, the Mercedes engines are as bulletproof as the 4BT, you can pull some serious power out of those engines, the only drawback with them is you have to do a lot of adapting. If you are set on a 4BT then by all means get one, there reputation is well deserved, but if you are just wanting to get over to diesel, there are engines out there every bit as good as the 4BT with no where near the premium the 4BT commands.

 

[Edger6]

If I had mucho money id stuff a 6.2 motor in there,