WH Hydroboost Help Needed

[69_ColdDuck]

Hi all,

I recently installed the WH hydroboost unit on my 69. My system includes an F150 gearbox and pump and a power steering cooler in front of the radiator. I've bled the death out of the power steering system and am certain that is not the issue. What's happening is that with the power steering pump full to the brim with fluid, at start up, all the fluid is sucked into the system and I have to add about 3 or 4 ounces quickly to keep it from sucking air in. This results in the fluid at the "cold" level. While running, the fluid stays constant at the cold level. The system operates beautifully in the short little drives I've taken - can't believe the brakes work so well...However, when I shut it off, the fluid moves back into the pump and overflows about 3 or 4 ounces. So, I'm trying to figure out if the cooler is the issue - with the additional hose running to and from the gear box and the hydroboost, there's a lot more fluid in the system. WH says they do not like running coolers with the hydroboost, so this may be the problem. Anyone have a similar issue that you resolved? I was thinking possibly finding a way to add an overflow reservoir or installing a check valve to prevent the fluid from running back into the pump reservoir. Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[Jamie Chriss]

I don't think you need a cooler. I am running this with the WH PCS reservoir.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

The cooler was already in place and I'd like to keep it with the hydroboost added if possible as I suspect keeping it will have similar benefits for the hydroboost and pump. I'm really trying to figure out how I can keep enough fluid in the system for it to operate correctly without having to add fluid at startup and have it run out of the pump reservoir when the engine is shut off.

 

[JWMcCrary]

I've been running WH hydroboost since 2006 but I have stock 76 steering box. The steering box is tapped for a redneck ram which is also on the system. I have a dual return Saginaw pump with a finned cooler in the return line mounted under the radiator behind my front bumper. I do not have the problem you describe. the return for the hydroboost goes straight to the pump and not through the cooler.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Thanks for the input. My system is different with just the one return on the pump. I plumbed it according to the WH instructions, using the "T" connection where the return line from the pump runs into the top of the "T" and then into the gear box. The hydroboost low pressure out connects into the bottom of the "T".

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Forgot to mention in the previous post that my return line goes from the pump through the "T" to the cooler, then out the cooler to the gear box...so its the same as the instructions except including the cooler in the system.

 

[ET]

That’s what mines did with stock can ham ppump, HB and EB gearbox. I temporary put on silicon hose and diy fuel filler neck and cap hose clamped them to get more space/volume. I have no idea why it does this and like you brakes work great. I now have remote reservoir and ram and I know it still does it. The reservoir hold enough fluid to not worry about emptying pump. I have a cooler on each return lines.

Eugene

 

[Apogee]

The fluid is for all practical purposes incompressible, so if there's a volumetric change taking place, then either the system is getting bigger and causing the fluid levels to fall, or there's "fluid" in the system getting smaller under pressure (aka "air"). There's a small thermal expansion/contraction component factored into the mix with the hot/cold fluid levels in the pump, but I'd be interested in seeing some pictures of your setup.

Is the pump new or is it the original from the F150 donor? Could be a faulty pump pressure relief.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Interesting. So, I did notice I have a leak from the high pressure side of the pump at the AN fitting - which I plan to address tonight. Are you saying that air could be getting in there and causing the issue? Also, I think I attached some photos of the hydroboost, pump, gearbox and cooler. The pump is older and with the Bronco - not sure if it is from F150.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Here's a pic of the underside of the gearbox with return line from cooler and high pressure from hydroboost.

 

[JeffG]

You could try and rule out the cooler by removing it from the system to see if that helps. Here is what ET was referring to by adding some additional volume to your pump.

 

[JeffG]

It could be just the volume of fluid needed to pass through the cooler and all the lines you have. This happened to me when I added full hydro steering with a small reservoir. When the wheels were turned full lock, the cylinder ram would drain the reservoir. When I added a larger like Jamie Chriss, the problem went away.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Thanks Jeff. So is the red cap a gas cap inserted on a fuel filler neck?

This may be the way I go as I'd like to keep the cooler.

 

[JeffG]

That was a pic I grabbed online. Here is the article of how it was done.

https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/...8-leak-free-low-buck-power-steering-upgrades/

Another alternative is if you happen to have an extra Bronco fuel filler neck and cap, cut the top section off and insert it in the hose with a clamp.

 

[WILDHORSES]

This has definitely not been an issue I have seen before. For that reason I'm very interested in the resolution. We are always adding to our tech experience.

Just a thought I don't know if anyone can confirm this idea. I notice in this rig the pump is mounted pretty low. Not sure if the cooler being up higher on the core support could be contributing to the issue. I think someone has already said it would be easy to bypass the cooler to test the idea.

I would add WH is not a fan of coolers but to clarify that comment we are not a fan if/when they are the cause of flow problems, which would be noted by the steering system not functioning well, usually lack of power which is not the case here.

The hose and cap to reservoir is something we have seen before. Helps to keep fluid in the pump on trail rigs. Might be a solution here as well. The pump looks like an old Cardone conversion pump, I'm not sure if there is enough metal at the top to get a good clamp for the hose but that is easy to check.

Jim

 

[welndmn]

I agree with Jim, I think the Pump looks low (Because of the A/C?) and the cooler looks high, causing oil to drain back once you shut it off.
Unbolt the cooler and zip tie lower than the pump and see if that helps.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Thanks Jim and Welndmn. A buddy had pointed that out to me late yesterday and I intend to test that tonight. I really don't have the room to lower the cooler, so if bypassing it eliminates the issue, I'll go without the cooler. I'll post an update when I've had a chance to bypass and test it. Appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Glass Pony]

Thanks Jim and Welndmn. A buddy had pointed that out to me late yesterday and I intend to test that tonight. I really don't have the room to lower the cooler, so if bypassing it eliminates the issue, I'll go without the cooler. I'll post an update when I've had a chance to bypass and test it. Appreciate everyone's input.

I running a cooler with Hyroboost with no issues but it is mounted all the way down on the cross member. These guys might be on to something.

 

[Yeller]

It is air in the system. fill it up with the engine running and drive it, the best way I've ever found to bleed a steering system and I've done all of the tricks, it will clear up. if the cooler higher was a problem so is the hydroboost unit. I've run all kinds of steering systems most of which have filters, coolers, valves and such higher than the reservoir. Once the system is truly completely bled the issue will go away. I've had it take more than 2 hours running and driving to get all of the air out so don't just run it for 10 minutes and say that didn't work.

 

[69_ColdDuck]

Just an update. I lowered the cooler as far as it would go, which was only about 2.5 inches. I ran the engine, adding in fluid as the pump sucked it in. After idling for several minutes, I shut the engine off and the fluid flowed back in to the pump reservoir and the overflow was much less than when the cooler was higher. Nonetheless, I’ve eliminated the cooler as the way it was plumbed, I couldn’t do much with it and when I get a chance to bleed and test, I’ll let you know if the cooler was the issue. If not, then I’ll follow the preceding thread’s driving and running it for as long as needed to make sure the air is out.