What's is the best tie rod set up??

[bronko69er]

I could not be happier with my Ballistic Fabrication Chevy TRO setup
Good price for a complete kit and extremely strong

Nice fab work there! ;D

 

[thumping]

I could not be happier with my Ballistic Fabrication Chevy TRO setup

Good price for a complete kit and extremely strong

Glad your happy with it...looks really nice. Did you weld the inserts in? Again, looks really nice.

Anthony

 

[thumping]

Anthony,

I respect your opinion as well. One of my biggest complaints about people running Heims/SRE's is that they think they are indestructable. This gives a false sense of security and due to the lack of them needing to be greased it leads people to beleive that they do not need to check them as a maintenance item. With all that has been said here about heims/SRE maintenance on them do either you or Chuck include all of this knowledge about the issues of installing and maintaining or is that assumed that the installer already has this knowledge?

Ben

Hello Ben. Thanks. I sincerely appreciate the mutual respect. Again, I’ll be the first to state that yes, a heim can fail…the same as a TRE. If man makes it you can be assured that man can break it.

To answer your question, no, we do not have anything stated on out site about the regular maintenance of the heims. You bring up a good point and when we update the site I will include some “recommended maintenance” items. Although FK does not really make any we can and will state what type of spray to use and how/when to clean them. So far we’ve left it up to the individual to care for their heims. We can and will start making some recommendations but in the end it is up to the customer. Take a TRE for instance, they come with zerk fittings but no instructions about how often they should be greased. Same as with ball joints. It always will boil down to the individual to inspect, clean, grease/lube the parts. Again though, I will go ahead and add the items to the site.

Oh, look for me to post up the cost of the greaseable heims sometime tomorrow.

Above all…to me, thank you for being considerate in your responses to me. We can discuss, disagree and even agree to disagree without making anything personal. So again, thanks.

 

[bronko69er]

Did you weld the inserts in? Again, looks really nice.
Anthony

Why yes, yes I did. Thank you! ;D

 

[bigmuddy]

No worries Anthony. My question was also about the misalignment shims as well as maintenance items. Good to see you are on top of it as far as updating your site and trying to help keep your customers safe and in the know about your steering products.

Ben

 

[chuck]

After Matt's mishap we modified our caution notes to red and changed some words to make it clearer. We also changed from crimp lock to castle nuts. I think the crimp nuts are fine and in Matt's case the cotter pin may have been cut but whatever about that The reason I changed is if it had been a castle nut and it came loose no one would be trying to blame me. With that in mind I will also offer the greasable heims but in big bold print will be the words. GREASABLE HEIMS ARE WEAKER THEN THE ****** HEIMS SO ARE MORE LIKELY TO FAIL SO WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THEIR USE. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK or some words like that. We also have a call into FK about maintenance

 

[73stallion]

let us know what they say chuck.

 

[Amac70]

. . A 1000 mile Baja will put them through more use than most will see in a life time on a normal rig.

I always love these assumptions. What makes you think one race is equivilent to life time on a normal rig. Most tre last 20-30 years in my experience, and the ones that are about to fail are generally pretty obvious and sloppy. Now i have no problem with hiems on a trail rig mild street rig. My issues with hiems is there quality and longevity. Almost every trip i've been on in recent years someone has had hiems that had failed or were in the proccess (loose and squeaking like hell) The Three that come to mine right off the top of my head two where PU set ups one was stonecrusher( I am not knocking either product they are both good looking products. I would even consider them if i was not capable of building my own.) The one on the stonecrusher he had already replaced one with the spare and now was driveing around looking for another. Luckly it was in moab where it is actually possible to drive into town and find one. Where do you go when you need to replace a hiem any other city in america? If your running TRE's you drive down to napa, autozone, carquest and there going to have one in stock.

 

[SpareParts]

I too would like to know what they recommend on cleaning and lubing the heims. Thanks to both in advance.

David

 

[chuck]

You may be right about the OEM TREs but you can't get them any more. This is my experence with the aftermarket TREs. In the Baja 1000 a frw years ago I was using a new set of f-150 tierod/drag link cut down to fit the EB. At race mile 831 we had to change out the tierod and drag link as all 4 joints were worn to the point that I was afraid one of them would pop off. A little over 200 miles later at the end of the race the second new set of f-150 tierod/drag link was very loose. The heim that I am still using in the upper track bar is still goodThat was about 5? years ago. I have been running the same set of heims that I installed the next year. I did not race this year but last year made 1100 miles of the baja 1000 on those heims and they are still good. I have been selling the f-150 tierod for a long time and have had no one complain about them going bad. From the above experence I can conclude that the baja 1000 is much harder on parts than driving on the street. If the aftermarket tierods are good for 50,000 miles on road then baja is 50 times harder on steering parts? OK that is a small sample so may not be accurate but the baja is one hell of a testing ground.

I always love these assumptions. What makes you think one race is equivilent to life time on a normal rig. Most tre last 20-30 years in my experience, and the ones that are about to fail are generally pretty obvious and sloppy. Now i have no problem with hiems on a trail rig mild street rig. My issues with hiems is there quality and longevity. Almost every trip i've been on in recent years someone has had hiems that had failed or were in the proccess (loose and squeaking like hell) The Three that come to mine right off the top of my head two where PU set ups one was stonecrusher( I am not knocking either product they are both good looking products. I would even consider them if i was not capable of building my own.) The one on the stonecrusher he had already replaced one with the spare and now was driveing around looking for another. Luckly it was in moab where it is actually possible to drive into town and find one. Where do you go when you need to replace a hiem any other city in america? If your running TRE's you drive down to napa, autozone, carquest and there going to have one in stock.

 

[broncnaz]

What is the best tie rod or hiem joint set up? Who makes it?? I have head a lot of BS about different hiem joint set ups?

Look at the can of worms you opened up.
In my opinion if your running a daily driver/weekend wheeler stick with the tierod ends even stock sized is fine although F150 or ch#vy ends are a good upgrade. 1 if you break one you should be able to get a new one about anywhere. 2 no modification needed. 3. There DOT approved so no hassle at inspections if you have them.

If your into hardcore wheeling or just want to look cool then go with the hiems.
Personnally I wouldnt run hiems nothing really against them other than having to modify stuff to make them fit. I dont do hardcore stuff but I have been through a lot of rough stuff and my stock tie rod ends have held up fine. My other theory is that mostif not all of the hiem setups use extremly big DOM tubing that is considerably stronger than the stock or conversion tierod if you end up hitting something with a stock tierod it will usually just bend. With the hiem setups if you hit something they are less likely to bend and your more likely to have breakage somewhere else like a steering knuckle. Personnally I'd rather bend a stock tierod then possibly break a steering knuckle. Keep in mine I havent heard of this actually being a problem with heim setups but its just my opinion. Its kinda like ujoints you need a weaker leak somewhere to keep from trashing the real expensive or more critical parts. I've seen knuckles break on tierod setups also so its not a given that one is better than the other.

 

[805tony]

Look at the can of worms you opened up.
In my opinion if your running a daily driver/weekend wheeler stick with the tierod ends even stock sized is fine although F150 or ch#vy ends are a good upgrade. 1 if you break one you should be able to get a new one about anywhere. 2 no modification needed. 3. There DOT approved so no hassle at inspections if you have them.

If your into hardcore wheeling or just want to look cool then go with the hiems.
Personnally I wouldnt run hiems nothing really against them other than having to modify stuff to make them fit. I dont do hardcore stuff but I have been through a lot of rough stuff and my stock tie rod ends have held up fine. My other theory is that mostif not all of the hiem setups use extremly big DOM tubing that is considerably stronger than the stock or conversion tierod if you end up hitting something with a stock tierod it will usually just bend. With the hiem setups if you hit something they are less likely to bend and your more likely to have breakage somewhere else like a steering knuckle. Personnally I'd rather bend a stock tierod then possibly break a steering knuckle. Keep in mine I havent heard of this actually being a problem with heim setups but its just my opinion. Its kinda like ujoints you need a weaker leak somewhere to keep from trashing the real expensive or more critical parts. I've seen knuckles break on tierod setups also so its not a given that one is better than the other.

Yup I thought this would happen! Im Building a pretty nasty machine http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130562. I'm going to use it as a weekend cruiser and at the dunes most of the time. What Chuck said about running the heims through baja and they are still good makes the most sense! There is NO! test out there better tan Baja! It seams like most of the problems with the heims are installer error?

 

[Wyldebill]

I have used the heims for about eight years and consider it a much better setup than any of the TRE systems I have used. They are considerably stronger and will out last the TRE's ????????? longer. I can't put a number to how long they will last as I have yet to wearout my first set, but I am well past 2 to 1. I hammer the rocks pretty hard and OEM doesn't last long at all. I also drive the streets and to the trail and my steering remains tight, with the exception of an occassional track arm bushing. I just replaced the upper bushing on that with a heim also. Maybe that will fix that too. The key to using them is to make sure you buy the best quality available and as previously mentioned, make sure they are set up so they don't bind any where. If you spend the bucks and get the best made, they will have a teflon lining and will not require lube.

 

[DanWheeler]

Why yes, yes I did. Thank you! ;D

hahaha, yep - thanks again Jesse!

 

[450rbronco]

I could not be happier with my Ballistic Fabrication Chevy TRO setup

Good price for a complete kit and extremely strong

what all do you have to ream out for this kit to work since your tie rods are on top did you have to ream both knuckles and pitman arm ...etc

 

[bronko69er]

what all do you have to ream out for this kit to work since your tie rods are on top did you have to ream both knuckles and pitman arm ...etc

Yes, we reamed the knuckles and pitman arm.

 

[bigmuddy]

Chuck, congrats on changing the coloring and wording on the installation instructions for your kit. I think you are going to save yourself a lot of headaches and possibly money in the long run by going with the castlenuts and cotterpins.

Ben

 

[thumping]

Okay, according to FK adding the drilled hole and zert fitting will reduce the load rating by 30%. This will bring the standard load rating down from 28,000 lbs to 19,600lbs. Also to get this heim with a Teflon lining and zert fitting will require a special order item and cannot be returned unless there is a flaw in the manufacturing.

FK has recommended these not to be used in our application but if there is a strong enough demand to stock them and if the customer fully understands that these are not as strong as our standard heims and acknowledges the warnings that will be added to our site…then I will provide them. Also, due to the required machining time, these will be more expensive but to what extent I don’t know at the moment. I’m still working with them on getting a price together. I will post the price of the grease-able heims shortly.


Now for the regular maintenance of non grease-able heims, FK recommends simply to wash any debris off the heims and to spray them down with a synthetic type lubricant. The nylon race will not absorb water and is self lubricating but the occasional lubrication certainly won’t hurt.

So there it is in a nut shell. If anyone has any questions just let me know and I'm sure Chuck or I will answer them.


Now let’s see if we can put some of this other stuff to bed and if nothing else agree to disagree. If you do not like or do not believe that technology has drastically improved spherical rod ends over the past years and that TRE’s are still the way to go, by all means, run what makes you feel comfortable.

After all I’m sure those that build trophy trucks, stadium trucks, etc and invest multiple 10’s of thousands of dollars into them have not done their homework and have not done any research and development into what is more durable and can withstand the punishment a 1000+ mile race through some of the harshest terrain on Earth while running speeds that most of our rigs will never see even on highways. I’m also sure they have not looked into and compared the materials, load ratings and testing of each piece of equipment. I mean after all, they are just building some of the most technology advanced equipment the automotive industry has seen and their sponsors don’t mind investing $100,000.00+ into a vehicle that can’t finish the race. OEM manufactures are not paying close attention to these vehicles and none of the innovated work is making their way into the cars and truck that are coming out today and years to come. I wonder where Dodge came up with the idea of linking their rear suspension on new Rams?

But again, if you believe differently, it’s still all good and we all should feel comfortable with what we use.

 

[U-Bronco]

Should also be noted that the NYLON SRE's do not have a 28000 lb load rating... more like 23000...

http://www.fkrodends.com/KMX KMXL.htm

 

[thumping]

Should also be noted that the NYLON SRE's do not have a 28000 lb load rating... more like 23000...

http://www.fkrodends.com/KMX KMXL.htm

Sorry, I should have made that more clear. The KMX's are not offered in a grease-able version. The 28,000lb was referring to the JMX which is offered with the grease-able option but does reduce the rating to 19,600.