Winters shifter linkage, 4R70W with NP205...anyone move shifter cable from front

[nvrstuk]

Winters/Art Car shifter on 4R70W last 6 years with a Klune and Atlas...no clearance issue...swapped out the Atlas with a 205 for better gearing and crap, the front output shaft is closer to the centerline of the 205 t-case than the Atlas!! Who would have guessed...?

Anyway, the front driveline will be able to go up 2" before it doesn't touch, but CRUSH the linkage and shifter linkage arm, cable/brackets/etc.

Anybody run the cable from the front, reverse the shift pattern on the gate and have Park at the rear of the shifter instead of the front? How about flipping the shifter bracket on the tranny over on the shifter arm that sticks out of the side of the transmission- any clearance issues?

When my D60 goes in, I'll move the pinion over towards the frame more hopefully clearing this but for now...

thanks!

 

[broncoman1972]

I Don't have the Klune or 205, but with the Dana 20 the 4r70w linkage kit placed the cable coming nearly straight back at the front output. Seems that I remember it being a fairly common problem. Anyway, I modified the linkage on the trans and built a new bracket to angle the cable down from over the top of the t-case. The shifter didn't have to be changed (at least not related to this mod directly). Maybe this would work for you too. Here's a link to what I did on my build thread.

Mike

 

[Broncobowsher]

I've done it with just a D20 and a Lokar shifter. Arm pointed up. Cable attached at an open hole somewhere around the second bellhousing bolt up. Some handy hole already on the transmission. Cable loops over the top of the bellhousing and goes toward the rear on the passenger side of the transmission. Figure the rest as you see fit.

 

[nvrstuk]

I Don't have the Klune or 205, but with the Dana 20 the 4r70w linkage kit placed the cable coming nearly straight back at the front output. Seems that I remember it being a fairly common problem. Anyway, I modified the linkage on the trans and built a new bracket to angle the cable down from over the top of the t-case. The shifter didn't have to be changed (at least not related to this mod directly). Maybe this would work for you too. Here's a link to what I did on my build thread.

Mike

Mike, I had to do something similar for my Atlas also... thanks for the link...

Problem is the 205 front output shaft is over an INCH closer to the tranny... totally eliminating any chance of having the cable come towards the rear...like it was for 6 years without any clearance issues...I'll post a pic...

 

[broncoman1972]

Gotcha. Haven't dealt with that setup before so I wasn't sure if it would work or not.

 

[frdboy]

I have a Bandit shifter but using the B&M lever kit and making my own bracket I was able to run it to the back with my 205

 

[ntsqd]

I'm having trouble seeing a 205 as an upgrade to an Atlas.

 

[nvrstuk]

Here we go Tom!

418/4r70W/KluneV/Atlas never used the Atlas in Moab or other knarly rock trails or anywhere else for the last 6 yrs as it was too low geared when combined with the Klune. I need and use/used my 2.0:1 or 2.7:1 doubler (used to run a 203/D20 for 11 yrs prior) ratios ALL the time when wheeling, never used Atlas ANYWHERE else since it's waaaay to low for snow, worthless for sand, etc.

418/4r70W/KluneV/NP205 Will use the Atlas exclusively in sand and snow. Top wheel speed at sustained 5500 rpm will be appr 55mph in snow and climbing dunes, Klune and 205 engaged is plenty low gearing with lockable TC for rocks, ledges, not breaking thru by crawling in deep "slow" snow, etc

Weighs 20#lbs more

No drawbacks in my book. I'm running 4130 chrome moly shaft in the Klune which is good for thousands of ft lbs of torque.

I'm good to go for thousands less money but more important, I have the gear ratios that work for my driving and ALL types of terrain...not just one or two.

 

[nvrstuk]

frdboy, that setup would be broken off also. The bracket holding the cable would have to be moved underneath the bolts holding the pan on. That's where mine is with the Atlas. Worked great...not a chance with the 20

 

[ntsqd]

I bought the Atlas with a 3:1 LR for that reason, too low is as useless as too high. Learned that on Cad Hill in a yota with a single 4.7:1. Figured if I found that I needed more that I'd put in a NWF Black Box. Have been tempted just to do it anyway......

 

[Broncobowsher]

Too low is useless, oh how do I agree with this.

4.3 Atlas is useless in the dunes. Either high range and hope 1st gear is low enough to get you moving or low range and hope you can get through without needing too much wheels speed.
I've also been with a guy who had a set 4.86 transfer case gears. Cruised the highway great, crawled great, couldn't drive up a simple sand wash to get between the highway and the rocks.
Or the 4.3 behind an NP435. Ran into some trail traffic and he needed to back up. As he was reversing (in low range) someone walked up and asked if he was having problems backing up because he was moving so slow getting out of the way.

 

[nvrstuk]

KluneV weighs 35#'s...how can you NOT install one of these- or a NWF Black box?
Doubles all available gear ratios and shorter than the stock cast iron adapter spacer btw trans and t-case on a Bronco. Clockable to almost 10deg in any position...


I've been weighing everything that I've been doing on this project- trying to keep weight down but it ain't happening... I knew I'd gain 20 or so on the t-case swap but worth it. It does extend your drivetrain if going to an Atlas since it turns into a 6" long adapter.

-Atlas swap for 205
-RuffStuff 9" housing to replace the 2nd F150 housing, and 2 earlier '77 HD Bronco housings that I've bent (I've never jumped my Bronco)
-14 bolt rear hubs (Ford's pressed on brgs to hold the axle in is a rollover waiting to happen) I've had at least 4 axles WALK out at speed since '76...lucky...
-3/4ton rotors, brake caliper brackets, etc
-4 link all brackets, DOM tubing, etc
- lowering drivers side and raising pass side floors for seat and exhaust clearance
-list keeps growing...

 

[ntsqd]

Why not an Atlas with a taller low range? Then it's a simple swap, which translates more time to F-off in the woods or figure out that 350 HP NO2 system for the sled or, god forbid, break ground on momma's garden in time for spring.

With Klune being NLA that leaves a NWF-BB or one of the DIY variants. I'm NV4500 direct to Atlas, so no iron adapter. And with a 130" wheel base, no rear drive-shaft length worries either. Just for the use I'm having a hard time justifying the added expense of the BB. One of the EB's that goes on these trips has a 4 spd Atlas and he rarely uses more than one particular low range option.

I hear you on FF rear wheel hubs. Too many more pressing things to deal with first, but I hope to eventually get back around to building a FF 9" housing. For my use one of those that employs a D60 unit bearing may be enough, but the purist in me wants a spindle.

 

[nvrstuk]

Yeah, stuffing 3.0 gears into my Atlas would solve this issue... That's a grand, plus not selling the used atlas and I"m in the red $2500 on my swap...don't like it.. but...

I've got a HP60 ready to go...I'll have to put in different tubes but it's a '79 Snofighter so it's the best unit for stuffing in a Bronco...loaded with gears and an ARB...I just need to make it fit... wasn't planning on doing that this winter/spring

Oh well, maybe not as much time in the garden...

;D

 

[nvrstuk]

Here's a couple pics showing a bungee cord connected to the yoke and how it's not going to clear the shift linkage much less the shift cable...

 

[Yeller]

Turning the shifter around isn't a big deal, disassemble the shifter mechanism from the steel base and reassemble the other direction. Your on your own for a bracket on the trans but it will work just fine. reversing the shifter will also allow you to flip the lever pointing up which may simplify the installation and pull from the rear. Hope that makes since. Good luck, I know you can make it happen

 

[nvrstuk]

I appreciate the input, this ones just a "bit" different...

I've made literally a dozen mechanical shifter setups for tranny's and dual transfer case setups over the years. This is a "anybody done this before" request???

Physically there isn't room to run the cable in from the front with shorty headers since from the attachment point of the shift linkage there is appr 10" of shifter cable that cannot be bent or flexed in any way...

Only reason it isn't already flipped with the linkage pointing up for a quick trial fit is the shift position sensor is in the way... the shift linkage rod is one pc and extends into the tranny so if it is grooved, notched, flattened on one side or designed in some way to only fit one way that then adds a twist...

I'll pull the pan late today, look at whether the linkage can be removed from the trans and "just flipped" 180 deg so it's pointing straight up. If this was a C4 or C6 or siimilar without the electronics it would be done already...

Another possibility would be extending the 5/8" shift linkage shaft appr 5". This shaft sticks out of the side of the tranny horizontally and the linkage arm/lever with the ball stud is integral with it, so it would then allow me to connect the shifter cable to it on the frame side of the driveshaft...

Making brackets is the simple part.

I need to just rip it apart and check it out... I'm working on other Bronco stuff right now just asking others if they've had this issue-thanks

IF the shift linkage can be attached above, I'll probably have the only Winters shifter that has this pattern...

front of vehicle

1
2
3
N
R
P

rear of vehicle

 

[frdboy]

I appreciate the input, this ones just a "bit" different...

I've made literally a dozen mechanical shifter setups for tranny's and dual transfer case setups over the years. This is a "anybody done this before" request???

Physically there isn't room to run the cable in from the front with shorty headers since from the attachment point of the shift linkage there is appr 10" of shifter cable that cannot be bent or flexed in any way...

Only reason it isn't already flipped with the linkage pointing up for a quick trial fit is the shift position sensor is in the way... the shift linkage rod is one pc and extends into the tranny so if it is grooved, notched, flattened on one side or designed in some way to only fit one way that then adds a twist...

I'll pull the pan late today, look at whether the linkage can be removed from the trans and "just flipped" 180 deg so it's pointing straight up. If this was a C4 or C6 or siimilar without the electronics it would be done already...

Another possibility would be extending the 5/8" shift linkage shaft appr 5". This shaft sticks out of the side of the tranny horizontally and the linkage arm/lever with the ball stud is integral with it, so it would then allow me to connect the shifter cable to it on the frame side of the driveshaft...

Making brackets is the simple part.

I need to just rip it apart and check it out... I'm working on other Bronco stuff right now just asking others if they've had this issue-thanks

IF the shift linkage can be attached above, I'll probably have the only Winters shifter that has this pattern...

front of vehicle

1
2
3
N
R
P

rear of vehicle

This is the kit I used to move the cable attaching point pointing up instead of down.
http://www.bmracing.com/products/40504-bracket-and-lever-kit-for-ford-4r70w-automatic-transmission/

 

[ntsqd]

I had to do a similar extension on the DB's throttle shaft to clear the fan shroud. I did it like this:

The 'U' shaped piece was just some thick-ish sheet metal, nothing fancy. Key to no slop is how tight the ring fits over the hex of the nut

 

[nvrstuk]

Here's why flipping the shifter linkage bracket so it's pointing up won't work...


With the shift linkage lever ( lever with the ball stud) is below the shifter shaft that sticks out of the side of the tranny (it's normal position) when it is in the forward position then the tranny is in park. When the shift linkage lever with the ball stud is up above the shift shaft (flipped 180deg from stock) the shift linkage lever will be in the forward position when the tranny is in 1st gear...no problem if I just relabel the shifter face BUT because this is a 4R70W if the shift selector sensor isn't flipped so it is now facing down this sensor will sense that the tranny is in a different gear than it is in...not good... with it down, the driveshaft will crush it.

So I figured out I’m screwed with the front driveline interference with the shifter linkage. It can't be moved to the vertical position without the shift selector , also being flipped and now hanging down-- which would then be crushed. If it wasn't flipped, it would be reading the tranny in the wrong gear...

Somebody correct me if I'm way off here...