Won't start: is this a battery related problem? FIXED

[raleigh_bronco]

**** It was out of gas *****

I think maybe it was siphoned while at Maaco... I'm just glad I figured it out. Kick me in the Jimmy.






1. Drove bronco last month to get painted.
2. Was using the screw driver instead of key & cylinder. Broke the old ignition switch at Maaco and they low-boyed it home.
3. I finally replaced the broken ignition switch today.
4. Now, I can hear the starter motor spinning, but the engine does not turn over at all...doesn't budge.
5. I put the battery on the charger for a few hours. The charger says the battery is only drawing 3A. The lights, blinker, emergency blinkers etc. work fine but still no turn over.

Is this a bad cell in the battery? Is it something else that I'm missing here

 

[DirtDonk]

So do you mean that the starter is spinning but not turning the engine? Or that the engine is turning, but not firing?
Sounds like you're saying that the starter is just free-spinning, in which case I don't think the battery would be the problem. Otherwise you wouldn't even hear the starter spinning.
What type of starter is it? Stock? If so, then as soon as it spins up, it is supposed to engage the ring-gear teeth. So it sounds like your starter is malfuntioning to me.
How old is it? How fast does it sound like it's spinning? If just slowly, then OK, maybe your battery is a problem, but if it sounds like it's spooling up pretty quickly to a high speed, then it's back to your starter as the main culprit.
Just for S's & G's, try hitting the starter motor with a hammer. Give it a couple of good raps and see what happens then.

Paul

 

[raleigh_bronco]

How old is it? How fast does it sound like it's spinning? If just slowly, then OK, maybe your battery is a problem, but if it sounds like it's spooling up pretty quickly to a high speed, then it's back to your starter as the main culprit.
Just for S's & G's, try hitting the starter motor with a hammer. Give it a couple of good raps and see what happens then.

Paul

Yeah that's it. When I turn the key to start the engine it acts like it wants to bump the engine but doesn't budge then all I hear is a fast spinning starter motor.

I replaced the starter motor this fall and have only used it probably 30 times since putting it in.

So, what do you think?

 

[DirtDonk]

Hmmm, not unusual for a new one to be bad, but it is unusual for it to work fine for awhile then go bad so soon.
Just out of curiosity, can you still turn the engine over by hand? Like with the crank bolt and a wrench. It's probably fine, but with a quick twist, you could rule out any chance the engine has siezed somewhat.
After that, I'm not sure, but still try the hammer routine and see if it changes it any. If it "fixes" the problem, then your starter is most likely failing and just waiting to do it again.
And of course, if you haven't already, double and triple check all the wires in the starter system for any clues.

Paul

 

[raleigh_bronco]

I read some old posts that said...

Turn on your head lights and hit the starter if the lights don't dim it is bad wiring /loose connections or a bad solenoid. if the lights dim and the starter doesn't crank bad starter. If the lights go out then its a bad battery or charging system. get a digital volt meter check battery voltage.


When I try to crank mine the lights dim so I believe it has to be a bad starter using this logic. What do you think.

I also rapped the side of the starter motor with a hammer and this didn't change anything.

 

[DirtDonk]

Although those rules are not "etched in stone" they sound like pretty good guidelines. So I think you're on the right track.
Sounds like you'll be down on that cold floor tommorrow testing those theories, eh?
Hope it's that simple. That would be a good thing.

Paul

 

[raleigh_bronco]

Yep. It's gonna suck.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Case]

did you have problems with your bronco not starting or did Macco have problems?? they may have left the starter ingauged while driving, which will destroy a starter. Try tapping the starter like DirtDonk said. The starter might have froze up. The staters are not hard to drop compared to other vehicles, so drop the stater and take it to get tested. Alot of places will do it for free.

 

[kool]

Is it possible that there's a broken tooth on the flexplate? That would make the starter just spin.

 

[bert]

From your post, the battery is probably o.k.
Make sure the engine will turn, turn it by hand.
If the starter "bumps" the engine and then just spins, I would suspect the starter drive itself. (Cheap rebuilds use cheap parts.)
If after turning the engine by hand it cranks o.k, Inspect the ring gear teeth very carefully.

 

[Skuzzlebutt]

Yeah that's it. When I turn the key to start the engine it acts like it wants to bump the engine but doesn't budge then all I hear is a fast spinning starter motor.

I replaced the starter motor this fall and have only used it probably 30 times since putting it in.

So, what do you think?

Did you buy it at NAPA?

NAPAs re-man starters suck. All their other stuff is good, just buy starters somewhere else.

 

[Blue71]

I had the problem with the starter just spinning and it was because there was a place in the flywheel that had 3 teeth missing. Starter was engaging , but missing the flywheel. If you will turn the motor by hand by spinning the fan.(Make sure it actually turns the crank pulley and the belts arent slipping. This should move it nough to wher the starter will engage and hit teeth again. Then try it. I had to replace the flywheel.

Good Luck,

Blue71

 

[raleigh_bronco]

UPDATE:

I pulled the starter and looked at its gear teeth. The top edge of each starter gear tooth have been ground off about an 1/8" where the starter gear meshes to the engine gear.

Is this normal or does this mean something is wrong? When the starter gear teeth mesh with the engine gear is it only at the forward tip of the starter gear teeth?

 

[bert]

Most likely what you are seeing on the starter drive teeth is normal. They are beveled to mesh with the ring gear easily. Inspect the teeth on the flywheel itself. If they are damaged, it could cause your no crank. Check the starter drive gear itself. It has a one way clutch in it. It should turn very easy one direction, (by hand) and turn the whole armature while spinning the other direction. If the problem is the flywheel itself, turning the engine a little bit by hand as metioned above, will give the starter good teeth to engage with and should allow you to crank the engine with the starter.

 

[BoltBuster]

Something happened to me one time when replacing my stater with the same problem.

I had the guy bring me both starters he carried for the 351W. One starter was different from the other by 1/4 of an inch or so brand new in the box from the mount into the tranny. clearly a mis-manufacture or mis labeling of the product. Something to pay attention to when you go to purchase the new starter.

 

[Skuzzlebutt]

That sounds like the difference between starters for manual and auto trannies.

 

[raleigh_bronco]

OK, I replaced the starter motor and the solenoid also. The engine turns over but it gives off a grinding sound and will not crank. This is so frustrating.

I'm hooked up to a batter charger and a battery jumper as well. What should I do?????????

 

[bert]

OK, I replaced the starter motor and the solenoid also. The engine turns over but it gives off a grinding sound and will not crank. This is so frustrating.

Sorry, I am a little confused. It turns over but will not crank? Do you mean it will not start even tho it is turning over/cranking?
Check the connections at your solenoid, be sure the "I" terminal is hooked up. There are some other posts recently that address that concern.
As far as the grinding noise goes, did they give you the correct replacement as mentioned above? Also the bolt holes may be a little off, make sure the starter is flush against the engine plate and not cock-eyed a little. I don't believe the Ford starters require shims like the Chebys do, but I think they make them to keep the starter drive from engaging too deeply. The fact that you replaced the starter and it cranks now leads me to believe the starter drive on the other starter failed. Make sure there are not any debris inside the bellhousing.

 

[raleigh_bronco]

Sorry, I am a little confused. It turns over but will not crank? Do you mean it will not start even tho it is turning over/cranking?
Check the connections at your solenoid, be sure the "I" terminal is hooked up. There are some other posts recently that address that concern.
As far as the grinding noise goes, did they give you the correct replacement as mentioned above? Also the bolt holes may be a little off, make sure the starter is flush against the engine plate and not cock-eyed a little. I don't believe the Ford starters require shims like the Chebys do, but I think they make them to keep the starter drive from engaging too deeply. The fact that you replaced the starter and it cranks now leads me to believe the starter drive on the other starter failed. Make sure there are not any debris inside the bellhousing.

Sorry, it turns over but does not start. I double checked the solenoid connection and it looks good. I also replaced the battery today and it didn't help. The starter motor is seated properly and it is the same model as the one that I pulled, which was working fine up until a few weeks ago. I am totally baffled by this problem.

 

[bert]

For the no start, get out your test light.
Turn the key to the on position and check for power at the (+) positive side of the coil, light should come on.
Have someone crank the engine and check for power at the coil as above, the light should come on.
If the light does not come on in either or both situations you have found your no start condition. Post back and let us know. There is an unmeasurable wealth of experience and knowledge on this board.