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302 Thumpr Cam Won't Idle

rmk57

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
580
My thoughts are to check piston to valve clearance or coil bind on the XE 262h.

You may also want to check retainer / rocker interference.
 
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pennyduke

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
377
Loc.
Stafford
If I was going to check the valve clearance, Wouldn't I have to remove the head. I do remember checking it with the Thumpr Cam before I installed the heads. My pistons had valve reliefs and I had plenty of room. The Thumper and the XE 262H have about the same Valve lift so I think that will be ok.

Coil Bind is something that I never checked. I don't know how to check it but I'm sure I can figure it out. Same with the Retainer/Rocker Interference.

The Cam Card for the XE 256H Says "Strong Torque thru low end and mid-range, Good Idle". I kinda like that description.
 

68ford

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
Both of those cams sound great and I like tight lobe separation, but I wonder if you should go with a 112 lobe sep being you concerned about fuel smell and idle?
 
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pennyduke

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
377
Loc.
Stafford
The Edelbrock Performer-Plus Cam has a 112 lobe separation. It seems a little more tame than the Comp Cams. Decisions Decisions
 

pcf_mark

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
3,582
I used that 268H in a 302 and it was stout. Amazing mid-range. We used the stock Ford springs. It has a really nice exhaust not too - both at idle and when you got into it. We used the stock C4 Mustang converter it worked good.

You need to replace the lifters they are worn matched to the cam during break in. Each way to check piston to valve with the head on put a .080 - .100 thick piece of metal under the rocker. With the lash adjusted on a solid lifter (yes a solid you may need to borrow one) pry on the retainer to open the valve and slip your .080 shim under the tip. Then rotate the engine two full turns BY HAND. If it you have any resistance you have a clearance problem. Repeat on the other valve. I can;t imaging you would have any piston to valve problems with that cam unless you have a dome. Flat tops should be fine.

Checking spring clearance is easier. With the rocker at max lift take a paper clip and it should between the coil of the springs. Sometimes they stack at one end but as long as you can fit the paper clip in between a coil or two you are fine. Also at max lift be sure can fit the paper clip between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the valve seal. Again with that cam I would not expect any problem.
 

pcf_mark

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
3,582
I just grab one out of the drawer. A good USA made paperclip is over .030 so that is good enough. Plus you can bend it all around to get in between the spring to check the retainer clearance.

One last check - at half lift the center of the rocker should be on the center of the valve. At rest it is on the intake side a bit and at max lift on the exhaust side a bit.

With that small cam you are going to be fine but always check!
 

rmk57

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
580
0.060 clearance is standard a little more is better. You could also figure out where coil bind by compressing the valve spring in a vice to your cams max lift and measure with a feeler gauge. You would also need to know the springs installed height for this test.

I mostly work on 429-460's and you cant go more than .540 lift on a stock engine without the retainer getting to close to the umbrella valve seal, and crushing it. Not sure about small blocks but it sounds like your engine is built with higher lift cams in mind.
 
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gr8scott

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Jul 1, 2011
Messages
1,828
According to their website the RPM range of that cam is 1300-5600. 1300 is way too high for a C4. Can that cam idle lower? Like in the 600-700 range?
 

rmk57

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
580
the 1300 rpm is where the cam starts building power, the 5600 rpm is where it starts dropping off. Should easily idle at 700-750.
 

Master Chief

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,204
I have the Trick Flow TFS-2500100 Spring Upgrade Kit installed for my GT40P heads.

Will the XE 256H have better Torque than the XE 262H? Under the notes for the XE 256 it says "Strong through low end". I'm still undecided between the two.

I would call Comp again and ask them about the TF springs with either of these cams. You want to match the springs to the cam or you may open another can of worms.

As for which cam you noted above makes better torque, Comp dyno'd those cams in a 350 chevy and the numbers look comparable with a difference going to the 262 with +4 tq & +18 hp.

I went through what you are doing now with my 331, built for torque with Comps XE268H cam. After I had everything together, it would not idle down to a streetable RPM because it if I lowered it, the rig would fight the brakes, load up the transmission, and nearly kill the engine unless I shifted to neutral. Additionally, from a standing start, it did not bog, but the engine power was compensating for the rest of the drive line.

After driving it like this for about two months, winter hit the Northeast so I pulled the engine and transmission back out. I installed an ACC Boss Hog torque converter specifically built for my Bronco, changed the rear gears from 3.50 open to 3.92 Trac-lock, and replaced the 1405 carb with the smaller 1404 that I mentioned previously. This configuration is awesome around town and on the highway.
 

Joe473

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
950
I have the Trick Flow TFS-2500100 Spring Upgrade Kit installed for my GT40P heads.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2500100

Will the XE 256H have better Torque than the XE 262H? Under the notes for the XE 256 it says "Strong Torque through low end". I'm still undecided between the two.
As others have mentioned it all comes back to your combination of parts and driving styles. Tire size, Gearing, 1st gear and highway cruise gearing, intended uses, auto vs standard, carb, intake, exhaust, manifold or header type all come into play and could work with or against your cam choice. Once you have a cam then you need to check valvetrain compatibility.

I agree with Master Chief on bigger isnt always better especially when we run heavier tires and drivetrain parts than what most of the industry is used too. I run a 1.12 4100 carb (500cfm) 9.6 comp ratio, wieand intake, full roller scorpion rockers, Gt40 3 bar heads with springs and upgraded keepers to match cam, scat 347 rotating assembly, bc shorty headers, 2 into 1 2.5" exhaust with 22" magnaflow muffler. 4.11 gears m5r2 trans and 30" tires. My cam is a 35-349-8 which most would consider mild in a 347. It works well much better with 4.11s. It has a very stock sounding 750 rpm idle but surprises the hell out of people even dipping halfway into the throttle.
I have considered 32 inch tires which have me thinking the 258 grind could have been better for a little more down low and avoiding another gear change later.

Think about what you have and where you are going. Do you like cruising down a back road at 2200 rpm or 3200 rpm to keep engine near peak torque and efficient based on cam rpm range? Will you go off road? Make sure you let comp know your preferences and uses as well for their input and remind them of tire size and weight

It's not an easy choice but take max power out of equation and think about parts u have/will have and your preferences.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
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pennyduke

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
377
Loc.
Stafford
That's some great info guys. I did talk to Comp Cams about selecting the Cam. The young Man that I talked to asked me a ton of questions (including all the ones mentioned) and came up with those 2 Cams. He even looked up the Spring Pressure on the Trick flow springs and said that they would work with those Cams. I will do all of the testing for coil bind and all of the other things mentioned before putting it back together. I'm pretty sure that I will be going with the XE 256H tomorrow.
 

pcf_mark

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
3,582
If your truck is really heavy (big bumpers, big tires, big tire rack etc.) I would go 256. If closer to stock I would go 262. I would suggest that the converter may have already been bad in the case mentioned above. I had one in a C4 with a stock converter and it idled at 700 in gear 850 in park.
 

dholder

Full Member
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
227
Just talked to Comp Cams and they recommended the XE 262H.

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=799&sb=2

He said it would work perfect with my setup. No need to change the stall or anything else. Thoughts?

I have basically the same cam except my valve lift is .513. Engine is 5.0 HO from Lincoln MK7 with edelbrock 650 and weiand dual plane intake and headers. No power brakes. Stock c-4, 35 in tires and 3.50 gears. Idles at 600 with a nice little lope. Pulls hard but a little weak off the line. But certainly way more power than the 1974 302 that it replaces, from idle all the way up. I did have to get new valve springs. I wouldn't change a thing except I need lower gears.
 
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