A word on VIN numbers

[Crush]

First off i would like to say that this post is not to try to disprove anyone or make anyone mad. I am only trying to educate all visitors to our lovely site/community about the actual VIN number. This is the vehicles serial number and usually begins with U15, U14, or U13. The. There will be three more letters such as GLY. Then the actual unit number. I Would also like to state that my knowledge comes from first hand experience buying and selling old cars for the last 30 or so years. VIN numbers have been a pain to deal with because over the years there have been mistakes not caught when changing titles over to other peoples names and then 10 people later they cant get it titled in their name or sell it because of the small mistakes.

This VIN or serial number is located in only two places for identification purposes. Thise two places are stamped in the frame. One in between the passengers side front shock mount and the passengers floor pan on the top side of the frame. Very close to adjaycent to where the starter would be on the engine. The other number is usually on the rear of the frame near the 3rd body mount but not always there. And is also stamped in the top of the frame. These are the only two identification VIN numbers. These numbers must match your title.

As for any rivited on serial number (VIN), these are warranty plates. They are not SUPPOSED to be used for identification and titling purposes. However some lazy state employees will use it if they dont know where to look for the actual vin or dont want to get dirty checking the actual vin. These warranty plates were to mak it easier on the fore dealer to find information about your vehicle without having to look for the serial number and then looking up on microfische for info about your vehicle. It was a pre computer way to help the technitians do their job. One again. The plate on the glovebox door IS NOT ThE VIN plate but a WARRANTY plate and yes the VIN is stampes on it

Now there are some state issued serial plates that are pop riveted or stuck on. These are issued when there isna title problem that has been corrected and the state will issue its own number the vehicle. This wil forever after be that vehicles number and not the ford issued one

If you have a bronco titled with the glovebox plate and it does not match the frame then someone down the line is gonna have problems. May not be you but someone will

Ok. Off my soapbox but just trying to keep most the new guys from doing something with a glove box door and matching title that the rest of us will have to deal with later

 

[ezbngreen]

Thanks. Didn't know this.

 

[Crawdad]

Yes states do differ. I found this out by buying a 72 rolling chassis from GA a couple of years ago. The PO told me the title matched both the frame and glovebox. I was gullible and only verified the glovebox door VIN plate and not the "official" frame's VIN. I figured I'd go into my DMV and transfer title in my name based on the glovebox door VIN plate. They pulled up one of the diagrams that has been passed around this website. They flat out told me they must see the stamped VIN on the frame since it was from out of state. They gave me a copy of that diagram as I left. I went back home and finally chkd the frame and guess what, it did not match. The PO, a member on here, refused to return my PMs. I don't feel cheated by the PO, it was my fault bc I wasn't educated enough. I was hoping the PO had the correct frame sitting out back but I will never know. I had to set out looking for another frame that was in good shape and visually matched the frame. I found a great deal from a local bronco parts seller here in SC. He sold me a 77 frame with both (pictured below) VINs with its matching title. I quickly took that frame down to the same DMV I visited before. They came out and said "Where is your vehicle?" and I pointed to the trailer with my new-to-me 77 bronco frame. I used a wire wheel to clean both stamps and they had no problem making out the numbers and letters. Only took me a few minutes to transfer title in my name after their visual inspection. They assured me I would not have any problems transferring this 77 bronco to a new owner to any state in the US. I don't ever plan to sell my bronco (unless I must like my old 76) but I feel comfortable knowing that if anything happened to me that my wife, son or daughter will have an easy transaction if times become difficult. As far as the glovebox door plate and door sticker, you can order a Marti Report and they will recreate these items at a cost. Its not a priority for me but I'd like to have these two items whenever I get my bronco painted.

Here is a good reference of where most stamped VINs are located circled in red. I can only post one pic at a time.

 

[Crawdad]

And in the rear, again circled in red. Don't pay attn to the weed eater!

 

[JAFO]

And in the rear, again circled in red. Don't pay attn to the weed eater!

I thought you were in the middle of some rear engine design.

 

[FordBronc]

And do not forget about the "Safety Certification Sticker. The white at one time, now faded off white sticker on the B pillar/just above where the dvrs door striker is.

Has the VI# and other codes, but it not the VIN plate.

 

[kancox]

Yes states do differ,in ks all you need on a vehicle 35yrs or older is a bill of sale for them to issue you a title to that frame number but does anybody know what happens when you buy a new frame like bronco graveyard sells? do you get a MSO,manufactures statement of origin or a title with it?

 

[TheGanzman]

Good post! I've always wondered - one of my "blank checkbook" ideas is to use a mid-2000 Ford Explorer chassis - the one with both independent front AND rear suspension. Obviously this would take a LOT of "cut & paste" work, but if I DO happen to get around to doing this (fear not - I would have a professional frame shop - Fatman Fabrications - do this work on a frame table), I would DEFINITELY cut the S/N out (at least the one near the "starter area", which BTW the lady at CA DMV did get underneath and verify) and have it welded in on the new frame, then the welds ground down before powdercoating the frame...

I SERIOUSLY doubt that a DMV person would be able to figure out that it was a later model frame underneath...

 

[rydog1130]

Good post! I've always wondered - one of my "blank checkbook" ideas is to use a mid-2000 Ford Explorer chassis - the one with both independent front AND rear suspension. Obviously this would take a LOT of "cut & paste" work, but if I DO happen to get around to doing this (fear not - I would have a professional frame shop - Fatman Fabrications - do this work on a frame table), I would DEFINITELY cut the S/N out (at least the one near the "starter area", which BTW the lady at CA DMV did get underneath and verify) and have it welded in on the new frame, then the welds ground down before powdercoating the frame...

I SERIOUSLY doubt that a DMV person would be able to figure out that it was a later model frame underneath...

I got lectured on here for possibly wanting to do that with just a plain bronco "donor" frame. I really don't know how you're going to be able to read the vin on top of the frame when the body is on there and the frame is rusted, no light etc but they must have away

 

[Crush]

Yep i know some states dont have titles for older vehicles and do registrations off of bill of sale. And that is fine if you never want to sell it or pass it down to someone out of that state. We need to educate and try to prevent these mismatched bodies and frames from being registered with the glovebox. They need to keep the frame numbers on all paperwork. Weather it be titles, registrations, or bills of sale.

This problem is beginning to be a big issue with the increased interest in our broncos. There is also a new national system called NMVTIS that states are putting all titled and registered vehicles in. In this system the state that issued the title has to enter it in the system. In this state (wv) if its not already in the system then you have to send it back to the state it came from to get it entered in the system. Its a pain.

I think that this community could go a long way to helping keep our broncos titled properly. And to answer the question of the replacement frame. Thats where state issued vins come into play. Those broncos need to be serial numbered through the state like a kit car

 

[00gyrhed]

No matter what the law says, here in TX I have never needed anything but the paper title. No DMV person has ever gone outside to verify a VIN number on any vehicle I have ever transferred in over 40 years, in fact up until recently you could transfer title and not even have a street worthy vehicle.

Things can always change though, and I expect they will.

 

[JoePro]

In Colorado the DMV only requires VIN verifications on out of state vehicle purchases.

 

[Timmy390]

What is the DMV person to do? I mean are they expected to know where the VIN is stamped on every car/truck that comes along made in the past 50 plus years? Bronco specific, how would anyone be able to look at the top of the frame under the body to see the VIN.

I don't know about the DMV where you live but here in AR, they're lazy state employees that move as slow as they possibly can and the systems they use are so badly coded, they can't even pull up my name and see all the cars/truck registered under me. They have to pull them up one at a time.....LOL I would love to see them outside verifying VIN's in the 115 degree heat we've had over the past week.

With the above said, I always considered the stamps on the frame as a theft recovery means. The VIN's were stamped so they were not easily accessed to prevent tampering and in case of a fire, they wouldn't melt away and the car/truck could still be identified. I've had personal experience with a stolen and striped car. They ID was made by the police finding the VIN on the frame. They had to contact the manufacturer to get the location of the stamping (this was before the interweb)

I understand where you're coming from Crush and not discounting anything you said per say.

Didn't Boyd Coddington get into trouble for "manipulating" VIN's on those cars he was building? He had a manufactures license and could issue VIN numbers (the same as trailer manufactures do) but he was taking old VIN's and restamping them or something? Some sort of title scam

Tim

 

[BRONCOchild]

The DMV didn't want to look inside my engine bay to look down onto the frame for the VIN because the paper VIN on the door post looked sketchy to them. So, I had to take my EB to the local CHP office.

I explained where the VINs are located. They located the VINs, but still riveted their own plate on the door post, next to the original VIN. Whatever...the state just wanted to charge me extra and give me the run around because, as you mentioned, CA is a "lazy" state.

 

[Crush]

I agree about the laziness of the state workers. However does that mean WE should also be lazy and not use the correct vin when titling or registering our broncos???? It has been proven in the past with other makes and models and even one bronco on here that i know of where someone bought a bronco with the title for the glovebox. Spent a bunch of money on it with a body shop and other aftermarket parts. Then later go to title and register it only to have the dmv tell u to get a serial number verification from the police. The policeman if he is doing his job finds the location of the frame vin and uh oh. It is not the same as the glovebox. So he uses the frame and it comes up stolen. Now you have recieved stolen property amd they impound it and contact the rightful owner. That guy now has a new bronco and you have jail time. This is the extreme of what can happen if you use any other number besides the one on the frame.

We just need to do our best at making sure these problems dont happen in the future and if YOUR state is lazy and doesnt check the correct one doenst that make YOU lazy for not making sure the frame/glovebox/and title match or not have one in the glivebox at all.

I understand all if your points of view and comments. However it is the federal law not the state law that dictates which vin identifies a vehicle. Thats why the state emplyee has to look up the location of the correct vin tag.

I also know that some of you are going to hardheaded and do what you want and ket the next guy worry about it but come on. Until it happens to you its ok i guess?

This post was meant to inform new buyers and old forum members of the correct way to title or proove ownership of our broncos not the way you it has always been done. Like i mentioned before the new system, NMVTIS, is very strict. I will use my state (wv) as an example. If you bring a title to the dmv from any state that is not already in that system (and that includes one from wv) then the original state has to put that title in the system. And it has to be put in by the states main dmv office not a branch. With the newer cars just doing the in state titles is taking 3 months to get a title and out of state titles more than 6 months.

Im just trying to save all of us hassels down the road. But if you dont care i guess we cant help that

 

[Crush]

And one other thing that us checking frame vins will do is stop the shysters like sox and sandles and the bunch from doing the kind of flipping they do

 

[rydog1130]

And one other thing that us checking frame vins will do is stop the shysters like sox and sandles and the bunch from doing the kind of flipping they do

Ahh, now I get Attacs post with the picture of the socks now! ha ha

 

[Broncitis]

And what about Bronco rebuilt with new frames now produced by several sources?

Or even better, a new frame and a reproduction metal or glass body?

 

[JoePro]

Look what this Denver glovebox sold for what's a guy gonna do with that if the Bronco was claimed to be destroyed...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-77-Ear...ash=item2caf496652:g:52oAAOSw7XZXgrfe&vxp=mtr

And there was another one too the guy must have taken an offer on it but it probably woulda brought a bunch too...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Bronc...ash=item1a1796666c:g:TNkAAOSwRgJXkXGc&vxp=mtr

 

[Crush]

Those get state issued vins just like a kit car. Here we call them manufactured vehicle vin. Some states go theough the same process as when u build a trailer and get tags for it. Each state is different on manufactured titles or kit car titles but several of the old cars we have sold over the years had state issued vins because of missing or unknown factory vins. Old model t's and a's used the engine block number until such time as they started issuing frame and body numbers so alot of them now have state issued vins. My father has been selling old cars for about 30 years now and been in the car buisness his whole life so he keeps me up to speed with his complaining how its so hard to get correct titles for vehicles in general and especially old vehicles with questionable paperwork. Also if a title comes into this state from michigan it is an automatic 3 month wait for a title until the dmv can make sure it is not stolen or previous salvage/total. He is right now wiating on a title from minnesota that was a good title from minnesota but wasnt in the nmvtis system. Hes been waiting three months for minnesota to enter it in the system so wv can issue a title for it. Its a paIn in butt for sure