A word on VIN numbers

[o2bnmud]

what about a frame with 2 VIN #'s stamped at both locations? I just removed the body on a 74 ranger (body never been off) and it had 2 VINs and had factory bondo 1/4" thick that was obviously applied with the hardtop still on. I'm positive the body had never been off and of the bondo, there was no other paint or primer other than factory.

I know that some may think otherwise, but I'm sure of this. I currently have 10 broncos and have building and modifying for many years, and this was a first for me.

 

[Crush]

With the denver glovebox. In wv you could possible build one and use that glovebox to claim that it is anreal denver. However without frame vin for verification it would be inspected and registered with a state vin just like a kit car. I know other states are more leanient however it limits the ability to resell, leave to a relative in another state, move to another state and so forth. Also more and more state are entering this system

 

[Crush]

O2, were thise vins matching or not and did either one match the pAperwork you have for it?

 

[Crush]

And Drew, c'mon old friend, You have been at this entirely to long to ask a question like that. Im sure younalready knew what my answer was gonna be. Lol

 

[Joker11]

I have been biting my tongue on this one. Mostly because I got flamed on a Chevelle website about my Chevelle.

I understand that us Bronco owners don't want to get stuck with a fake or a stolen. Don't get me wrong.

But both my Chevelle and my Bronco are so old that they are both capable of having been rusted out to bits. Mine are not. But they COULD be.

So even if I had all the correct VINs on my Bronco, front, rear and glovebox, if it was all rusted, I am going to fix for structure and cosmetics.

There is no reason to not take a good body, and smack my VIN on it for a simple solution.

That is where people freak out.

Why is that any different than replacing each piece of sheetmetal at a time from a vendor, and welding it up to your VIN?

Neither tub is original, but it is the same end result.

If a person LEGALLY owns a VIN, he should be able to do whatever he wants with that VIN on his vehicle.

I should be able to go down to MVD, show them my VIN plate, my title, my good frame with VIN, , the bad tub with VIN, the good tub, and have it documented. No fraud. No theft. Just keeping an old ride going.

In support of my opinion, Honda will provide me a brand new frame for my 2005 Goldwing that has a bent/ruined frame. They will stamp the exact same VIN on the new frame and take the old frame in exchange. No SALVAGE title. Just a repair.

There are right ways to do this and wrong ways to do this. I think we should have legal means available.

Besides, are you going to tell a buyer that EVERY sheetmetal part is new and you replaced them one at a time to create a completely new truck around the old VIN? No. Because it is socially acceptable to "Repair". But it is the same thing as swapping a VIN.

 

[o2bnmud]

2 different VINs, and the original door sticker, glovebox data plate, and title match one of the VINs.

 

[Crawdad]

2 different VINs, and the original door sticker, glovebox data plate, and title match one of the VINs.

I bet the VIN stamp up in the front matches your title! I know people don't want to hear this but it's highly illegal to remove the original VIN stamp and re-stamp new VIN. Imagine you just paid $70000 for one of those "classic barn finds" that had been given new life and you discovered the frame had two different VIN stamps. I'd feel a lil cheated.

Cutting out the VIN stamp section and welding it into another bronco frame is highly illegal as well. Yeah u might be able to blend the welds away but a small mirror and flashlight or one of those cable cameras can ruin someone's day.

As far as new frames from JBG or Krawlers Edge I've read that as long as you keep the original frame you would be "safe".

 

[half cab]

Here in Mississippi and Alabama after a certain yr only a bill of sale is required but that's not what to say might happen if that Bronco ends up in a state where a title is needed .

 

[sriha]

I would be screwed on this one. My dad looked for numbers when we did the original build and didn't find any so he sand blasted the whole frame almost 20 years ago.%) Good thing I live in a state that didn't look or doesn't care, I didn't even have to bring the Bronco in. We originally titled the Bronco in WI and they didn't have an issue either.

 

[OX1]

No matter what the law says, here in TX I have never needed anything but the paper title. No DMV person has ever gone outside to verify a VIN number on any vehicle I have ever transferred in over 40 years, in fact up until recently you could transfer title and not even have a street worthy vehicle.

Things can always change though, and I expect they will.

Jersey couldn't care less as long as they get their money.

 

[BajaFresh75]

With the denver glovebox. In wv you could possible build one and use that glovebox to claim that it is anreal denver. However without frame vin for verification it would be inspected and registered with a state vin just like a kit car. I know other states are more leanient however it limits the ability to resell, leave to a relative in another state, move to another state and so forth. Also more and more state are entering this system

What happens if the state worker can't find the vin on the frame? I've had a few 66's that I've literally spent hours trying to find it. I've also have a bare '66U14 frame where I cannot legibly make out every digit, that's with me 6 inches away with a flashlight, magnifying glass and a can of carb cleaner. If they cannot make out every digit what happens?

 

[Crush]

Like insaid before. In ur state is in your state but it will not be in that state forever. Eventually u will pass and someone else will get it or times may be tough and you have to sell it. As for the missing and illegible ones. ThT is up to the inspector

 

[STD]

Some of you guys are such sticks in the mud

 

[markw]

Stick in the mud for wanting to keep VIN #s straight? Crush is right all the way. How the DMV checks is up to them no matter the state. Yes, it's a PIA sometimes, especially here in CA the land of the rigid bureaucracy, hater of classic cars and old paperwork. Straight to the CHP who WILL check all the numbers.

 

[Timmy390]

Not really. How would I get it straightened out in my state if my state doesn't care and will not do anything about it? Should I try to move to another state and get it done there and then move back?

Agree...

I have two classics one car and one Bronco. One bought in state (the Bronco) and one bought out of state (my Mach 1). AR DMV just took the title from both and reissued an AR title in my name. They never left their desk/window to verify anything. Heck, I didn't even drive either to the DMV to get the paperwork done. I guess they could be doing some checking behind the scenes but I suspect not.

I have a title issued per the VIN on the GB door for the Bronco and for the VIN tag in the windshield on the Mach 1 (which matches the VIN on the door tag it has no "buck tag").

What's a person to do if he/she did find a problem?

Tim

 

[o2bnmud]

Sorry if I was unclear, I have 2 VIN's at both locations on the frame. It was really surprising when I removed the body.

 

[Crush]

Timmy. Thats fine for you. However. If you go to sell the bronco and the state it goes to checks the frame and it does not match the title then there is a problem. You stsed the gb mat hes the paperwork but as has been stated the frAme vin is the only real identification number. Now did you check to see if your frame matches your paperwork? If you didnt then shame on you. Now if you go to sell to someone whos state checks the frame and it will does not match then You will be required to buy the vehicle back plus expenses. This is why i posted this information so that we on here can try to get some of this under control. There have been too many people on here who have had titling issues due to numbers not matching. Also if you get a bronco whos title matches the frame but not the glovebox the. Just take it off the glovebox and also take off the door jam sticker. Neither of these are considered vin plates and you can not get in trouble for taking off a sticker or warranty plate. Som many our vehicles have been misrepresented over the years and it is a shame for it to have happened and it really is the fault of the states thAt do not require serial numbers to be verified.

Now once the paperwork has been all cleaned up and frames match titles then it does not matter in the future weather or not anstate checks vins but if they do then you are covered

Also timmy, you may not know it but under your fender lips on the top of the inner fender or apron there is anserial jumber on each side. These are hidden and can only be seen by taking off the fender.

And if you do find a problem there are procedures to correct them. For instance. A vehicle may have an O in it but was entered as a 0. Or an I for a 1. You see what im saying. Now if the numbers are completely different you would have to plead your case and prove you put a different frame under it. The. The state would record the discrepancy and issue you a stste issued vin. Sometimes even when all the numbers match the state still issues a new assigned vin just because they can

Again i am not all knowing in all states. Lol. But my father and i have been at this for several years and it is getting worse. Wv will not issue a title unless it is in nmvtis already or an old wv title that has never been entered. All other states they send back to that state to have them enter it. That service is quickly ending also. We were told in the near future if its not a wv title that is not in the system then we must get it back to that state to have them enter it.

Please please please just try to protect yourself in the future and check the frame vin to match unless you are buying for parts and honestly intend to scrap it. That is also a problem now. Broncos bought for parts 10 years ago are now worth alot of money even though they are nothing but piles of rust because people believe that using the glovebox door and matching title to build one ok. And i know that some have restored their dads bronco and replaced everthing except that glovebox door and the title but please if the frame does not match, go to the dmv. Tell them what you have done and get the assigned state vin for it so it is legal.

 

[Crush]

I may be blowing this up way out of porportion but i have noticed the increased amount of vin/glovebox door/title questions on here and beleive we needed some education about correct vin numbers

Bottom line is check your frame vin before buying or selling to someone. If they match the title then horray. But if they dont then do some research in tour state for correcting the problem, look it up online, or go to the dmv and ask someone. You dont have to give them specifics but you ask things like how do I get a title for a vehichle that does not have one. Then you can take their answer and use your frame vin to apply for a title to that frame. If it does not come up as stolen then you should be good. Some states make you get a bonded title and i have never messed with those soim not sure how that works

Just be dilligent with YOUR titling procedures and thisnproblem will slowly work its way out

 

[markw]

Still agree with Crush. Not saying turn yourself inside out correcting something no one in your state cares about. I am saying, if a person is buying or building a Bronco make sure the title matches the frame VIN. It could save you or a future owner a major headache and or legal trouble. With 7 EBs in various condition from bare frames to complete, this is a major hassle for me. However, I'm going to make sure everything is clean and legal before I sell anything to anyone. We all get to make our own choices....for a while at least.

 

[Crush]

Well said mark. My point exactly. Lol