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Anyone know about 4 Wheel Drive Specialties ???

nirvana

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I Picked up an older used roll cage that was made by 4 Wheel Drive Specialties in Concord ca. Just wondering if it is any good. I am not a steel guy and cannot tell ya what type of steel it is or anything. I didn't give all that much for it. But I wonder if I should trust it or not.
It sort of resembles WH Baja roll bar. No idea how old it is.
 

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EPB72

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..still in business same location been around at least 25 years that i know of ...never really delt with them ...


The link above is not the same place,......and looking closer at the sticker its probably at least 15 -20 years old as the area code is 925 now not 510 ...the rest of the # is the same..
 
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nirvana

nirvana

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I would like to have it. How much?

Not really looking to sell it, I got it to put in my 74. I just want to find out if it would provide actual roll over protection, or just made to look pretty, like the silly san felipe bar that I have now.
 
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nirvana

nirvana

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..still in business same location been around at least 25 years that i know of ...never really delt with them ...


The link above is not the same place,......and looking closer at the sticker its probably at least 15 -20 years old as the area code is 925 now not 510 ...the rest of the # is the same..

I will try calling the number on monday, but it seems to me that they are no longer in business.

Thanks guys
 

DirtDonk

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they're good folks and build good products. Or at least they did when I was dealing with them on a regular basis. Very well respected 4wd and Jeep shop doing semi-custom builds. Not as high volume or profile as some of the other shops, but still had a good core business going on.

Whether the bars were ever tested or not is hard to say, but they did not build them for looks alone and would have been putting them in customer's rigs for safety.

Hope they're still in business, but that's a long time to stay open, much less keep the same employees!
I'd frankly be surprised if they survived the coming of Four Wheel Parts, the recession ten years ago, then the pandemic. Some have done well in that time, but most of our local 4wd shops have long since gone out of business trying to keep up with 4WPW and internet pricing. You just can't buy stuff cheap enough wholesale and hope to sell it, when your customer knows that they can buy it for less than you can even before trying to make a profit on it.
You end up being a service-only or custom part place like they did. The original owner was a little older 25 years ago when I started visiting them, so may just have decided to retire. Maybe they're doing welding at a hippie Jeep commune in the Sierras!

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Oh, and the good thing about this design is that while literally anything is stronger than the Bronco windshield frame to protect your head(!) the open sides do let you enter and exit without bonking said head every time for trying to protect it.
Might allow the bars to "twist" a bit in a really severe angle-on crash (might be why they're larger diameter than most), but otherwise pretty solid. And still way better than just the windshield frame!

And not sure why you think the San Felipe is silly? They've held the tops off of heads many times over the last 40+ years or so. Saved a few lives too, that I happen to know of personally.
Does yours have the front cage? Maybe it was installed and welded oddly?
The design is pretty basic and old-school, but pretty well accepted too.

Paul
 
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nirvana

nirvana

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And not sure why you think the San Felipe is silly? They've held the tops off of heads many times over the last 40+ years or so. Saved a few lives too, that I happen to know of personally.
Does yours have the front cage? Maybe it was installed and welded oddly?
The design is pretty basic and old-school, but pretty well accepted too.

Paul[/QUOTE]

Well, I may be mistaken. I bought the bar about 18 years ago or so from a popular vendor, It came as the hoop and two bolt together rear legs that extended all the way to the back of the bed. I don't know what I was expecting out of it only paying around 150 dollars at that time. What got me was the sticker that was applied to it that read " This bar will not provide roll over protection." I guess that it was really just a "Light Bar" that was designed to "look " Like a roll bar. I could be wrong about the name, it has been quite a few years, I just thought that the bar was called the San Felipe.
Now whenever I see those bolt together bars...I think, Well...junk actually.
So, no the one that I currently have in the Bronco that is getting thrown out does not have a front welded section and is merely a light bar that looks cool. I would have to dig through my stack of old catalogues to find the original name of this thing....I will try soon to find that.
I did have one before that was a welded bolt together mid hoop and front section, It did seem pretty solid, but the welds seem to lack integrity. I sold it.
 

Yeller

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" This bar will not provide roll over protection."

this is very common, I had something similar on all them that I built over the years just as a liability disclaimer. That is why the term "Sport bar" was developed. I'm also careful to not imply safety when discussing with customers. Paul is right anything is better than just a windshield frame, it might as well be built out of balsa wood tooth picks. I don't know what you have and am not making any endorsements just stating some data that many a lawyer has required their clients to do.
 

sprdv1

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Cosmetic only that's for dang sure.. don't trust your health to just that

" This bar will not provide roll over protection."

this is very common, I had something similar on all them that I built over the years just as a liability disclaimer. That is why the term "Sport bar" was developed. I'm also careful to not imply safety when discussing with customers. Paul is right anything is better than just a windshield frame, it might as well be built out of balsa wood tooth picks. I don't know what you have and am not making any endorsements just stating some data that many a lawyer has required their clients to do.
 

sprdv1

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Not really looking to sell it, I got it to put in my 74. I just want to find out if it would provide actual roll over protection, or just made to look pretty, like the silly san felipe bar that I have now.

nope... get a different one for real protection
 

Seventee

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I Picked up an older used roll cage that was made by 4 Wheel Drive Specialties in Concord ca. Just wondering if it is any good. I am not a steel guy and cannot tell ya what type of steel it is or anything. I didn't give all that much for it. But I wonder if I should trust it or not.
It sort of resembles WH Baja roll bar. No idea how old it is.

I have this exact same cage in my EB. I think it's good.
 

DirtDonk

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I think you can trust it. At least for some duties. But you have to decide just what you want to trust it for. What kind of driving is the Bronco going to be doing most of the time? Will you need it more likely for a trail accident, or for protecting the kids on a long freeway haul? Or planning to do all the Colorado passes someday maybe?
If the latter, then as good as yours are, I think I'd want more.

Sport bar, light bar, show bar, tube bar, bed bar, cage bar. You name it, for over twenty years starting in the early '80's everyone tried to come up with a clever name that did not intimate that it would save your life in a rollover and literally NOBODY called them "roll bars" anymore after that. Too many chances for a lawsuit.
In the last twenty years or so though, more and more companies (even us) are willing to go out on that limb and call them what they were originally intended for.

The real problems started when companies started catering to the street crowd that wanted something cheap and shippable to mount their 8 KC's on in the bed so they didn't have to drill holes in their truck. Those were designs that were made from thin materials with poor engineering other than for looks, but then consumers expected the cool looking stuff to protect them too and for even the chrome to get them home. I think that's when more and more manufacturers, no matter what they thought they were making it for, put those decals on every bar. Even seat belts were not sold as "protection" from crashes.
And I'm sure the smaller mom-n-pop shops were quick to jump on that particular bandwagon so they didn't lose everything if something went belly-up.

I remember in the '80's when Rancho suspension got sued, and settled for a pretty big payout to a family of a drunk driver that rolled his custom K5 Blazer and got himself killed unfortunately. The only problem was that Rancho didn't have a single product on the vehicle. Not even shocks!
What they had, and what the lawyers and everyone else glommed on to, was the "Rancho Suspension" decal in the truck's window. Just a decal!

The San Felipe bar is a version of the old Smittybilt bars from the late sixties to the mid nineties or so. Made out of 2" .120" wall tubing and quite strong. But a small bar of any design all by itself and simply bolted to the body without tying into the frame and adding the front and/or rear cages is just moderate protection for the occupants in a rollover. Again, better than nothing, but still not a cure for the headache of some types of accidents.

I'd trust both of the ones you're speaking of (especially the new cage) implicitly in a slow rollover on the trail (which is likely what most of us probably think about when buying one I think?), but sure would not want to test the old single bar in a 60mph freeway crash!
It's still better than what came in a Bronco from the factory though. Literally nothing...

For overall protection then, it's custom or (almost) nothing. With "custom" meaning not only having one purpose built for you personally, but can also mean some of the newer designs trying to update the protection of the old-school stuff. Your new one is kind of a semi-custom and with a few additions could be as strong as almost anything out there.
Does not mean though, that a custom bar could not start with the San Felipe as a base too (lots of custom cages have started out life that way) but I'd want a little more if I was trying to achieve maximum protection.
And that coming from someone that's driven Broncos for over 50 years with just that single bar in the back! Both of my Broncos have essentially the same San Felipe bar. The one in my '71 is in fact a Smittybilt that has been lightly modified for clearance (kickers shortened) and the '68 has an actual Wild Horses San Felipe.

Back to your original question (I think%)) about the builder. They were good at what they did. But I don't think you can go by the manufacturer's name only either, when talking of a protective device like this. You have to base an opinion on the part itself and be your own judge. Even Smittybilt, which got it's name and reputation from making hard core Jeep, Cruiser and Bronco roll bars back in the day (even though they were often minimalist by today's standards), also made crappy many-piece chrome bed bars for hanging lights and looking cool at a show. Remember the "4-and-3" bars? Four main hoops and three kickers per side? All in the bed of a short bed stepside Chevy truck! Hardly room for an ice chest and not going to do much good even with all that bulk of metal, if the bed tears away from the frame in an accident and leaves the cab unprotected.
They made them in three flavors. Thin-wall fully bolt-together, thin-wall partial bolt-together, and thicker wall fully welded. Only the fully welded ones were strong enough to be called protection, but man were those a bear to ship!

So if a bar is thin and flimsy, has a flimsy design, or poor weld quality, it's worth passing by. Are the welds crappy and pitted with blow-through holes and uneven depth? Or are they well laid out and solid and look like quality welds? Many aspects to a good bar vs a weak one. Including how it mounts to the vehicle. Of course you knew most of that already and even said you were not a metal expert, which is why you were checking in and asking the questions in the first place. I just wanted to add more details and my opinions (of course!) to the discussion.
Bottom line is that your new bar is an upgrade from the old.

Ultimately we all have to be the judge of what we put our heads under.

Paul
 

Rustytruck

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So if you deem a bar unsafe why would you pass it on to someone else to get hurt or killed? why not cut it up and scrap it?
 

marshall godron

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I know he’s been talking about retirement for the last few years I think he’s still there. I haven’t been in the shop for a while. But his sign is still on the building. He does good work. He even build sliders for my f250 a few years back
 
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