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Crate engine help. 302, 331, or 347?

pooterpot

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
476
Loc.
Lumberton, Texas
i decided to get a crate engine and need help with my decision on where and what to get. also are there places where you can customize a crate engine? ive been thinking of either a 331 or a 347 with AFR heads. i heard that 347s have oil problems but i also heard that the problem was solved. im looking for an engine under 8K. will i have to get a new torque converter?how much hp and torque can a c4 handle?will i have axle wrap? i thought about a 351 or EFI but i want a drop in engine and i dont know much about EFI and computers
 

tabascom16

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
526
Loc.
Salisbury, PA
Before you get a 347 get a 351. For a lot less than 8 grand you can get a pretty good engine. About all the 351 needs is some lowering brackets for the alternator and power steering if you have it which are very inexpensive and just bolt on.
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
I agree with Tabascom16 a 351W would be a better choice you can get a ford racing 351W short block for $3200 and put the AFR heads on it. or get a 351W long block for about $2800 Then all you need is a oil pan, bracket adapters and headers or manifold and your good to go.
If you still want to go with a 302 based motor I'd go with either a 331 or a ford racing 302 crate motor. To me the 347's are at the extreme end of a 302 as they are bored and stroked to the max at that point.
The 302 long blocks from ford are pretty decent 345 hp and they already have gt40 aluminum heads on them and run about $3500 best of all your starting with a brand new engine with a stock bore and crank. unlike some of the strokers that you may not be able to rebuild.
 
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pooterpot

pooterpot

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
476
Loc.
Lumberton, Texas
i want around 400hp but i also want something that could be used in a daily driver. how bout a 331 with afr heads.i would like to do 5.0 or a 351w but i dont want to do something that im not sure i can do. maybe offers of beer could get me some help installing one of those. then i would be more confident in which engine to get
 

71sport408

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2003
Messages
411
Loc.
Mandan
With the 5.0 you would have to deal with the wiring, still not too bad, but don't be afraid of the 351. The install is a piece of cake.
 

Craig T

Jr. Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
131
Loc.
Westlake Village
You can't go wrong with a Ford Racing crate motor. I've had very good luck with them. They also have a good customer service that will walk you through a fuel injection or throttle body install. http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/302smallblock.asp

There are three practical FRP options for your application (the 450hp isn't daily driver friendly).

Option M-6007-XB3* is a 302 with 345hp and 305 lbs ft torque. It bolts right in and has plenty of potential if you decide you want more hp later on. It's $3,300. It'll be another $2,000 if you put fuel injection in.

Craig T
 

mlogan24

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
1,380
351 ALL-THE-WAY

It's super cliched, but it's still true-"There's no replacement for displacement".

The 302 is a great block, but the 351 goes in so easy, so why not.

Speaking of that-if you feel you can handle installing a 302, then you can absolutely do a 351 install. The difficulties are very minimal and anyone on the board can help you. I'd agree with the above post that recommends getting a stock shortblock and throwing on the aftermarket heads of your choice. In some cases you'll still be spending less than the 347 but have the same or more power and much longer longevity/reliability as that 351 is no where near maxed out like the 347 will be.

EFI is the way to go, but if your hesitant due to the learning curve you can always buy a bolt-on TBI kit like one Howell. I would still encourage you to look at a stock Ford setup. It's a bit more exspensive if you do a 351, but if you do a 302, it can be done very cheaply.
 
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pooterpot

pooterpot

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
476
Loc.
Lumberton, Texas
i think i pretty much decided to go with a short block and get afr heads. now i need suggesstions for compression ratios and piston types and other things that i should consider

how much hp and torque could i get with a ford racing shortblock and afr 165 heads? what about mpg?
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
If you want 400 hp go with a 351 ford racing crate puts out 360 hp and its more or less stock or go with there 392 stroker for 392 hp. It will be way easier to get 400hp out of a 351 and you will have a more driveable engine. To get 400hp out of a 302 is going to be a chore and you may not like the engine afterwards unless you like running at 6000 rpm everywhere you go.
EFI is easier than you think to put on. theres a lot of info out there and even stand alone wiring harnesses availible that ford racing and some other companies sell.
 
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pooterpot

pooterpot

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
476
Loc.
Lumberton, Texas
i did learn how to read a wiring diagram yesterday. but id feel more confident with someone who's insatalled a 5.0 before. ill go with a 5.0 if some one would help me. offers of beer and some change are on the table now. i have to make decision on the engine this weekend
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
pooterpot said:
i think i pretty much decided to go with a short block and get afr heads. now i need suggesstions for compression ratios and piston types and other things that i should consider

how much hp and torque could i get with a ford racing shortblock and afr 165 heads? what about mpg?
Really depends on what short block you get. the afr heads have a 52cc combustion chamber which will bump up the comp ratio about 1 full point on most of the advertised ratios I would try to keep the CR down under 10-1 around 9-1 -9.5-1 would be ideal your mileage will depend a lot on your camshaft it has to be matched for your driving range and gear ratio/tire size ect. most of the stock type short blocks will be close but may benefit from a cam thats matched. As for hp again depends on what short block and what cam your going to run. I'd say with a 302 short block and a good cam you could expect 350hp at the flywheel
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
price is good but it doesnt tell you what exactly your getting. I would go with the one below it with the hyper pistons you dont really need forged unless racing and the forgeds are usually a little noisier until there warmed up.
I'm not positive about a 342 but I believe that its a stock bore 347 as a 347 is .030 over
 
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pooterpot

pooterpot

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
476
Loc.
Lumberton, Texas
can i get around 345-365 rwhp with a 302 and heads
i suppose the only real reason i wanted a 347 was for more cubes and it sounds better
 

BUCKETOBOLTS

Bronco Guru
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
1,605
Loc.
Salisbury, NC
pooterpot said:
i want around 400hp but i also want something that could be used in a daily driver. how bout a 331 with afr heads.i would like to do 5.0 or a 351w but i dont want to do something that im not sure i can do. maybe offers of beer could get me some help installing one of those. then i would be more confident in which engine to get


Another thing to remember with a 302 block, is that they don't hold up well with much more than 400hp. And it is much easier also to make 400 hp with 393ci than 302ci. But I believe the best choice for a 302 based stroker is the 331.
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
pooterpot said:
can i get around 345-365 rwhp with a 302 and heads
i suppose the only real reason i wanted a 347 was for more cubes and it sounds better
Shouldnt be a problem look at ford racings long block 302 http://store.summitracing.com/ while it may not have the heads you want it has the power your looking for dont get to stuck on AFR heads as they are not going to build any more power below 3000 rpm than any of the other heads.
Link didnt go exactly where I wanted but if you go to the crate engine section you can see what the 302 long blocks are putting out as well as some of the stroker engines
 

tabascom16

Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
526
Loc.
Salisbury, PA
Like most of the others you probably wont like the engine you built for daily driving if you want 400HP with small cubic inches. A 393 or 408 would be the way to go if you want a daily driver if you want that horsepower. More cubes means more torque and thats what you want in a daily driver. For a daily driver I would keep the cam intake duration under 220 at .050" If not your engine won't get you around town to well below 1000rpms where you might be driving to save some gas. People typically go to big on a cam.

As far as the AFR heads I say get them if you really can. I did a lot of looking around and those heads usually out perform other common aftermarket heads through the whole entire RPM range and they are not all that expensive.

If you can't find a shortblock that you like you can always get your own made. You might even be able to get short block made with better components if you get a local machine shop put it together. Look at www.adperformance.com. They have great deals on good rotating assemblies and the best deal on AFR heads. Get 165's for a 351 and below or 185's for a 393 or 408. I would also recommend low expansion forged pistsons. There are not to many out there but SRP makes them.

I looked a long time for a crate engine for mine. Never found anything that I exactly liked and they were expensive. I know mine is better than the crate engines I found and it was actually cheaper getting all the components and having a REPUTABLE machine shop put it together.

As far as fuel injection, I sometimes think people over value it. They think it will give them huge increases in gas mileage when they usually pick up very minimal gains.


You will always have axle wrap with torque. There are very simple aftermarket things to eliminate this. As far as rear wheel HP look at about 30% parasitic loss in a Bronco. So if you have 400HP at the flywheel you are looking at maybe 280 at the wheels which is still pretty good.
 
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pooterpot

pooterpot

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
476
Loc.
Lumberton, Texas
great deal on the afr heads.
how much valve relief would i need in pistons?
so i think im going to get a 331 shortblock with cast steel crank, hypereutectic pistons, i-beam rods, and the afr165's. sound right?

estimated hp and tq?
 
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broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
pooterpot said:
what about rear wheel hp?
heres a better price
http://www.strokerengine.com/BudgetFord.html
With AFR 165 heads the CR will be over 10-1 probably over 11-1 so you'll have to run premiun gas and that camshaft is a little big for a daily driver much less a 4x4 and you can kiss gas mileage good by.


qoute Tabascom16
''As far as the AFR heads I say get them if you really can. I did a lot of looking around and those heads usually out perform other common aftermarket heads through the whole entire RPM range and they are not all that expensive.''
While I agree the AFR's make more power through out the rpm range they dont make enough below 3000rpm over any other head to really justify swapping out another set of aluminum heads if he went with a ford racing long block I'd stay with the gt40's that come on it. Vs spending another $1k for 30 more hp at 6000 rpm
 
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