Holley Terminator X - who's running it? Using COP with it?

[nvrstuk]

I am looking to go COP. I currently run wasted spark

Guess I need to decide if the COP setup is worth it. Not going blower, pretty sure I'm not adding any juice, not running 9,500 rpm but I love a hot spark and the difference I've noted with the Neon coils and wasted spark blew me away when a hot blue spark was jumping an inch to my firewall. And that was with a coil working 1/2 duty cycle... gotta be even better if it's only running 12.5% of what a normal coil has to do. lol
Only real drawback is it makes it harder to adjust the valves with the engine running.

 

[ba123]

My coils are on the firewall. 4 on each side. I can post a better Pic maybe tomorrow but I'm sure they is one on my build thread

You can see one side in this Pic.

 

[nvrstuk]

Same idea here- 2- four packs of Neon coils on my firewall. Been there going on 8yrs

 

[frdboy]

I am doing this also on my 69, plan on running the explorer hall effect cam sensor with a homebuilt syncro like I did on my last build. Will be using a hall effect crank sensor, found a guy that shared a file for 3D printing a mount using the explorer VR sensor mount. The Hall effect sensors are better than the VR stuff with the Holley.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4...RUY9yWMC00ibWDfbRTYFRnpU1qTv90JaFR491MhNbg54c

 

[nvrstuk]

Thanks for the info. Those 3D brkts look cool.
Where is the data showing Hall effect signals being cleaner than VR?
All I've heard is the VR signal wave is cleaner than the Hall.

Now I've got more research to do. lol

Can you send me some links maybe?

Thanks

Updated spell check

 

[frdboy]

Thanks for the info. Those 3D brkts look fool.
Where is the data showing Hall effect signals being cleaner than VR?
All I've heard is the VR signal wave is cleaner than the Hall.

Now I've got more research to do. lol

Can you send me some links maybe?

Thanks

Mostly my personal experience. They will work, just a little more tuning to get perfect.

With my last build with MS3, I struggled to get the VR correct. Went to a hall effect and it was instantly better. I have read that others have had similar issues.

https://forums.holley.com/forum/hol...23-HP-EFI-SBF-Coil-On-Plug-No-Fire=#post85611

Oh, I didn't know you're using a Magnetic type cam sync unit. You should've mention that earlier.
https://forums.holley.com/showthread...3935#post73935 (Related Forum Thread)

You'll need to adjust the Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters.
It involves the hassle of reading a System Log and its "Crank A/D" channel to determine the optimum value.
That's the problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters need to be programmed.
http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters, Page 2)
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....4450#post54450 (Example: Wrong Magnetic Parameters, Post #25)

 

[nvrstuk]

THANKS for the info-greatly appreciated.

Is your last post in Greek or Latin? Can't make heads or tails of it. lol Kidding, good info & I will read it all. Danny's the guru, I'm changing plans!!! 3 wire Exploder cam synch I think it's going to be.

What I want is as little fiddling and "making it work" as possible! I sent over 50 datalogs out last July & August for tweaking. I would love to have it running as close to perfect in a couple weeks after install. Hope I'm not dreaming!

 

[ba123]

THANKS for the info-greatly appreciated.

Is your last post in Greek or Latin? Can't make heads or tails of it. lol Kidding, good info & I will read it all. Danny's the guru, I'm changing plans!!! 3 wire Exploder cam synch I think it's going to be.

What I want is as little fiddling and "making it work" as possible! I sent over 50 datalogs out last July & August for tweaking. I would love to have it running as close to perfect in a couple weeks after install. Hope I'm not dreaming!

It's all you need. If you don't already know, all the cam sync does in this application is tell the ecu that the next time that TDC #1 comes up, that it's the compression stroke. Since the crank spins twice for every cam revolution, it just lets the ecu know where it is.

 

[duffymahoney]

It's all you need. If you don't already know, all the cam sync does in this application is tell the ecu that the next time that TDC #1 comes up, that it's the compression stroke. Since the crank spins twice for every cam revolution, it just lets the ecu know where it is.

Yep, most cam syncs are extremely simply, one open spot, one tooth. Nothing special. On my haltech, the ecu doesn't even need the cam sync to be clocked at any angle, it just knows.

 

[nvrstuk]

So here's the details of what I "think" I'm ordering. someonce correct me if I'm off base.


Holley Terminator 550-937. No wasted spark drivers with this Ford kit (unneeded with COP) and is supposed to be easier to wire. It is SUPPOSED to have wiring for COP style coils, and for my current Sieman Deka 60 # injectors with proper spacing for my SuperVic intake and the 90 deg elbow I currently run on top of it. Then I can use all my intake tubing also.

Cam synch- Going to try a 3 wire OE style from a Windstar or whatever OE unit will work with Lar's spacer

Crank sensor & reluctor ring- Already a 36-1 reluctor and matching sensor

I really want a knock sensor which I believe the Term X will support but not sure if it works w/o their dizzy (Dual Sync) which is as bad as MSD ones- input ???

Use my current 80mm throttle body which is a Holley

Use my current Ford '89-93 IAC (supposed to work), stock intake air temp sensor

Don't need my Mass Air meter anymore and it's integral with my air filter so...

What else??

Update 30 min later- why are some ordering different oil pressure sensors and water temp sensors? Are the signals from the different sensors not compatible or something??

 

[rcmbronc]

The computer will not read factory sensors, it needs the ones they use. I had great luck with my dual sync dizzy from Holley.

 

[ba123]

I haven't used one, but II just don't like the idea of the dual sync dizzy and how it all runs off cam. With a crank sensor, your timing will 100% be perfect. I mean it certainly could be with the dual sync, but there is a chance it won't be and if you're already set up with a crank trigger, why even consider?

Again, I know I have MS3 and not TermX, but a lot of things work the same way.

I ditched my mass air meter as well. hard to think about since it was preached for so long that it's so good to have but if you tune for it, should be better without it.

I used the Dakota Digital oil pressure sender and spliced the signal wire back to my ecu to they share it. I think I could've also done it through CAN but I wanted to be sure it was there and did this.

Not sure how the water temp works on the TermX, but I used the stock Ford one and sending that info through cam to the dash.

 

[nvrstuk]

Ben- agreed on the dizzy and that's one of the reasons I won't run one. The other is the failure rate of them so cam sync only for me anymore. Garry talked me into it years ago and I thank him all the time. but there are guys that have never had an issue with them either.

Why does your ecu need a oil pressure signal? Is there a cut off if oil pressure zero's out??


RCM-

I was told the stock Ford sensors (even TPS) would work by the company that I'm buying it from and they tune them... maybe I got mixed up but I was very specific on my quest. More research since I would need to order them .

 

[duffymahoney]

Ben- agreed on the dizzy and that's one of the reasons I won't run one. The other is the failure rate of them so cam sync only for me anymore. Garry talked me into it years ago and I thank him all the time. but there are guys that have never had an issue with them either.

Why does your ecu need a oil pressure signal? Is there a cut off if oil pressure zero's out??


RCM-

I was told the stock Ford sensors (even TPS) would work by the company that I'm buying it from and they tune them... maybe I got mixed up but I was very specific on my quest. More research since I would need to order them .

Almost all aftermarket ecus can be calibrated to almost all sensors. You just have to input the voltages and such.

 

[nvrstuk]

That's what Scott (dealer) said. 0-5v and you're good.

I am calling him within the hour. I don't want to have add four more orders to the original ECU order. Would like to know up front what I need.

 

[nvrstuk]

Also, how many that have ever gone this route got with a 4 bolt type throttle body that sits directly on the 4 bolt intake like a SuperVic? I don't personally know any. All use a throttle plate like are used in 89-93 Mass Air setups.

Concerns going either way?

 

[rcmbronc]

I had a 4 barrel intake and carb style throttle body on my 427. Worked great. That had a Heltech ECU.

I just know that with the Haltech and Terminator I used the factory sensors foe the gauges and the recommended sensors for the computer. I dont think it needs oil pressure but then I was able to read it with either CAN or OBDII Bluetooth.

 

[ba123]

Ben- agreed on the dizzy and that's one of the reasons I won't run one. The other is the failure rate of them so cam sync only for me anymore. Garry talked me into it years ago and I thank him all the time. but there are guys that have never had an issue with them either.

Why does your ecu need a oil pressure signal? Is there a cut off if oil pressure zero's out??


RCM-

I was told the stock Ford sensors (even TPS) would work by the company that I'm buying it from and they tune them... maybe I got mixed up but I was very specific on my quest. More research since I would need to order them .

Yes, exactly...I have it programmed to cut the engine if it drops below x%. Don't remember if I did anything else with it, but was only one more wire to add it. The only other nice thing about having things run through my ecu is that I have my android head h it wired with a digital dash app and can configure it with different views. Just strted messing with it but cool to have. I put NJ y AOD pressure through there for that reason, cause I want to see it at times but don't want it always on my dash.

And nice that I can confug the screen however I want.

 

[nvrstuk]

Their guage cluster setup is pretty cool from what I've read and your's looks great.

I like that oil pressure cut out safety switch.

 

[36Fan]

Also, how many that have ever gone this route got with a 4 bolt type throttle body that sits directly on the 4 bolt intake like a SuperVic? I don't personally know any. All use a throttle plate like are used in 89-93 Mass Air setups.

Concerns going either way?

Wilson, Kinsler, Holley or Accufab are some choices for 4150 pattern.