How screwed is my caster?

[robsim111]

Okay, I've read all the caster threads, and now I'm worried. I have a 69 Bronco with a Dana 44 that I purchased around 8 years ago. I finally got around to stripping it down to the frame and rebuilding it from ground up. However, when I completed it the first time, before a shitty body shop left it out during a hurricane, it was all over the road. I had already converted it to power steering, put in new ball joints, purchased the adjustable track bar, new radius arm bushings etc. This thing was straight up all over the road at higher speeds, and the steering never returned to center. I finally measured my caster and it was around 4 degrees positive. I figured it was because of my lift kit. I THOUGHT it was a 2.5, however after pulling the body off, I realized its a 5.5" lift kit that was running the stock radius arms. I purchased the drop radius arm brackets from here, and welded them on. I have reassembled my drive train, and just out of curiosity, I remeasured the caster, and its 9 degree postive on one side and 10 positve on the other. How screwed am I? Everywhere says 10 is too much, but I'm hoping not. I do not want this thing to rattle, but I also do not want it to wander all over the road. Prior to adding the drop radius arm brackets, the damn front springs were bowing out forward, however, after the bracket install, they are perfectly vertical, so I assumed it its on point.

I know my front pinion angle is off now, but I'll cross that rubicon another time. What do you y'all think?

Edit: when I first got it up and running, it rattled terribly, but it ended up being the rear pinion angle was off by 4 degrees. I fixed it, and all of the rattling stopped. The draglink, tierods, and trac bar are all aftermarket adjustable from wildhorses. Trac bar and drag link are perfectly parallel.

 

[nvrstuk]

First off, I have no idea when you say "rattle" you mean wander when referring to driving down the road but then you said "rattle" again when describing something going on with the rear pinion??? Vibration? or something loose?

As an ex service tech, a rattle is something loose. You're using rattle for wandering when driving and a rattle for the pinion??

So is it a noise you hear? Description & terms are important.

10deg is a bit much. I run 7 (I think lol). Handles great, absolutely no wander at any speed, wheel returns when turning. Have you driven it then after doing the corrections?

What kind of tires ya running?

 

[robsim111]

First off, I have no idea when you say "rattle" you mean wander when referring to driving down the road but then you said "rattle" again when describing something going on with the rear pinion??? Vibration? or something loose?

As an ex service tech, a rattle is something loose. You're using rattle for wandering when driving and a rattle for the pinion??

So is it a noise you hear? Description & terms are important.

10deg is a bit much. I run 7 (I think lol). Handles great, absolutely no wander at any speed, wheel returns when turning. Have you driven it then after doing the corrections?

What kind of tires ya running?

Sorry, I'm all over the place. There was just steering wander. I read that too much caster can cause a rattle by throwing the front pinion angle off in 4wd. That coincidentally was an issue I had with the rear end, as the drive shaft was binding and causing a rattle.

I'm just hoping that the 6 degree difference will help with the road wander and that 10 degrees isn't TOO much.

I'm running 33" tires and I have the chevy front spindles (disc brake conversion)

I have not had a chance to run it, because I have the body pulled off to do an overhaul.

 

[nvrstuk]

OK.

Yeah, binding of the ujoints can cause a vibration. IF they are causing a vibration at ride height wait till you get a little droop while at speed over a bump on the highway or off road!! You'll really FEEL it.

10 is a bit much but I know guys running 8deg and they run great.

 

[gnpenning]

You mentioned new radius arm bushings, what exactly did you get?

 

[jamesroney]

Okay, I've read all the caster threads, and now I'm worried. I have a 69 Bronco with a Dana 44 that I purchased around 8 years ago. I finally got around to stripping it down to the frame and rebuilding it from ground up. However, when I completed it the first time, before a shitty body shop left it out during a hurricane, it was all over the road. I had already converted it to power steering, put in new ball joints, purchased the adjustable track bar, new radius arm bushings etc. This thing was straight up all over the road at higher speeds, and the steering never returned to center. I finally measured my caster and it was around 4 degrees positive. I figured it was because of my lift kit. I THOUGHT it was a 2.5, however after pulling the body off, I realized its a 5.5" lift kit that was running the stock radius arms. I purchased the drop radius arm brackets from here, and welded them on. I have reassembled my drive train, and just out of curiosity, I remeasured the caster, and its 9 degree postive on one side and 10 positve on the other. How screwed am I? Everywhere says 10 is too much, but I'm hoping not. I do not want this thing to rattle, but I also do not want it to wander all over the road. Prior to adding the drop radius arm brackets, the damn front springs were bowing out forward, however, after the bracket install, they are perfectly vertical, so I assumed it its on point.

I know my front pinion angle is off now, but I'll cross that rubicon another time. What do you y'all think?

Edit: when I first got it up and running, it rattled terribly, but it ended up being the rear pinion angle was off by 4 degrees. I fixed it, and all of the rattling stopped. The draglink, tierods, and trac bar are all aftermarket adjustable from wildhorses. Trac bar and drag link are perfectly parallel.

I agree with everything that @nvrstuk posted, (which is becoming annoying...) with one caveat.

There is no shortage of Mercedes Benz and a few BMW's with a factory caster specification of 9 degrees positive. That being said, those vehicles are not 93 inch wheelbase live axle vehicles running 33 inch tires.

 

[robsim111]

You mentioned new radius arm bushings, what exactly did you get?

I believe they were the 7 degree? I purchased them years ago to try and fix my steering issue. I was thinking of pulling them back off and flipping them to lose a few degrees of caster.

 

[DirtDonk]

I don’t think that’s a good idea. You would in fact lose 14°!
The first seven that you gained, plus the seven that you’re going in the other direction.
Not really a good combination for a bronco either.

How are you measuring your lift? And are you only measuring it now that it’s all assembled, back on the ground and driving?
You can’t determine lift height, alignment settings, or any steering, or suspension adjustments until the full weight of the bronco is achieved and it’s on the ground.
Is that how you measured yours?

 

[robsim111]

I don’t think that’s a good idea. You would in fact lose 14°!
The first seven that you gained, plus the seven that you’re going in the other direction.
Not really a good combination for a bronco either.

How are you measuring your lift? And are you only measuring it now that it’s all assembled, back on the ground and driving?
You can’t determine lift height, alignment settings, or any steering, or suspension adjustments until the full weight of the bronco is achieved and it’s on the ground.
Is that how you measured yours?

I found the stock ride height measurements measured from axle to frame. The difference was 5.5". This is with a complete chassis/driveline. The body is removed.

I was at +4 caster with 7 degree bushings and before radius arm brackets. Now it's ~+10. +4 was dangerous at highway speeds for me.

 

[EPB72]

I found the stock ride height measurements measured from axle to frame. The difference was 5.5". This is with a complete chassis/driveline. The body is removed.

I was at +4 caster with 7 degree bushings and before radius arm brackets. Now it's ~+10. +4 was dangerous at highway speeds for me.

It needs to be complete body,glass bumpers roll cage, fuel tanks , and everything else full weight on suspension... before trying to figure this out ,, Did you ever take ride height measurments prior to any disassembly ?

 

[nvrstuk]

What the last couple posts said.

The EASY fix here is when you get this all together, loaded up and taken for a ride you will know then what needs to be done. The EASY part is 8 bolts and $100 bucks and you have the caster you need to drive down the highway w/o changing lanes at a whim.

Don't worry about this at all. The only real issue I can see is any EB with a 5"+ suspension lift is not a street rig, will have potential caster issues, and for me since I wheel a lot (not talking dirt roads) is your ujoints in your drivelines. You might have the rear "fixed" for a while but the front with the yoke pointing away from the tcase yoke IS going to cause issues. A simple shim like in the rear won't kinda fix it.

ANY 5"+ lift needs the knuckles cut off and rotated like Lars did decades ago to fix your driveshaft angle to tcase problem you'll have. If you want/need the body up higher for clearance or the monster mall look then put a body lift on it. Keep the COG lower-extremely important.

Have a good Saturday all, foggy here but I'm finally headed out to the shop and warming it up1