Borgeson Steering Nightmare

[cjscrambler]

Here is my nightmare. Back at the first of the year I purchased a Borgeson steering unit complete with GM pump hoses and Steering sector from NPD. I installed the unit after some delay finding two two belt pulleys to go on my 302. I had to go with aluminum pulleys from wild horses due to no luck finding used ones. I cranked it up no power steering. The pump was no good. I sent it back to Borgeson where they deemed it faulty. They credited my credit card with exception of the thirty dollar shipping I had to pay for the faulty pump. I now have power steering so much so you cant hold it in the road. Every bushing tie rod end drag link is new, If you barely touch the steering wheel while running along about 30 miles an hour the Bronco will go all over the road. This Bronco is stock height with 235 15 street tires on it. The front end has been aligned. I called Borgeson they said I had to much pressure coming from the pump. I need to buy a shim kit to cut the pressure back on the pump for $18. I told them I thought this kit was ready to bolt up and use. I ordered the shim kit and have not received it yet. I now have a garage ornament that I cant drive. Please help thanks

 

[broncobsession]

Post a pic of the front end steering linkage. Lots of broncos get this, especially with a lift. And if the new PS setup is a really quick ratio 3:1 it will dart around. Most folks get used to it with time. Post the pic and lots of us will chime in.

 

[cjscrambler]

I will get you a pic tomorrow. Its stock height. Thanks

 

[Timmy390]

Sorry you had a bad experience with the Borgeson. What box did you buy? I'm running a Borgeson Delphi unit (4 mounting bolts) and it's great. I'm running the stock bronco pump but am in the middle of upgrading to the canned ham pump from the 96 van I pulled the 351W from. 2.5 SL with 1 inch BL with 32's.

As to the alignment, what did the shop do? These rigs can only have the toe set unless you buy adjustable ball joint inserts and change out the C bushings. What's the toe set at?

Tim

 

[cjscrambler]

The toe end is at 1/8. I put new stock height c bushings in last week. It improved the steering a little however it is still very darty. This is the four bolt box however I just put the three bolt back in. Thanks

 

[navalbronco66]

Sorry you had a bad experience with the Borgeson. What box did you buy? I'm running a Borgeson Delphi unit (4 mounting bolts) and it's great. I'm running the stock bronco pump but am in the middle of upgrading to the canned ham pump from the 96 van I pulled the 351W from. 2.5 SL with 1 inch BL with 32's.

As to the alignment, what did the shop do? These rigs can only have the toe set unless you buy adjustable ball joint inserts and change out the C bushings. What's the toe set at?

Tim

Where did you get the steering box at? Is it the same one offered through Bronco Grave Yard?

 

[cjscrambler]

National Parts Depot Ocala Fl Thanks

 

[SHX669]

I had a box that occasionally when you turned it had a mind of its own and went where it wanted. Turned out the pressure bypass vakve in the box wasnt working correctly.

 

[carmi]

Not that it would be any cheaper but I had good luck putting a larger pully on the power steering pump to slow it down a little and increase the required effort to turn. Was definetly an improvement. Might be able pull one at the local pick and pull.

 

[Whoaa]

This doesn't sound like a power steering issue to me. I can't imagine the power steering being the root cause of the issue of "darting"/wondering as you describe. This is a bushing issue and/or trac bar and drag link, and/or other front end components.

As described it sounds like now that you have [good] power steering and this allows the root problem to fully manifest itself or exacerbate the *real* problem. In other words, now w/ power steering you feel the sensation better than you have previously.

Re-reading your description and the part of you just installing new C bushing, Caster! Are you 100% sure that you installed the *correct* degree bushings and 100% certain you installed them in the correct orientation?
The C bushing are labeled inside with writing such as "lower", or "upper", ect. Some bushing mfg have different indentification, but they all have some stamp so the installer can get the correct orientation. If these bushings were installed "upside down" they wouldn't be the first ones........


Think of Caster like bicycle forks when we were kids.The front forks are raked forward. You can ride the bike easily and sometimes take your hands off of the handle bars and the bike will glide along in a straight line. As you ride the bike it always goes straight forward and doesn't require much steering input to stay on course. Now flip the handle bars around so the forks are raked backwards....now its difficult to control and requires constant steering input and still seems squirley. Many Bronco's don't have and never did have enough Caster and this is one of the root problems w/ driveability. ...the other major issues is the trac bar tying the front diff to the frame yanks the diff sideways everytime you hit a bump that upsets the suspension. I like to see 6 or 7 degree's of Caster. The toe-in alignment means nothing to the darting issue you're having.

I'd take this machine back to the local alignment shop and get a full print out of your actual Caster numbers. A Bronco needs 6 or 7 degree's of raked back [positive] Caster to drive nice. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you have 0 degree or raked forward [negative] Caster of 1 or 2 degree's

Here's a good link about Caster and darting/tracking/wondering http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Bronco_Wandering

Another side issue that comes in effect is the diameter of the steering wheel. If you're using a stock 17" -or so, steering wheel and used to sawing on it to get the machine to turn, and now have the sensation of a slight adjustment moves the machine sideways 4 feet, this is common. This "problem", which is actually a sensation and dangerous driving issue gets worse w/ a close ratio steering box and good power steering. One of the best cure's is an aftermarket 14" diameter steering wheel.

 

[Timmy390]

Where did you get the steering box at? Is it the same one offered through Bronco Grave Yard?

I got mine off eBay a few years back (free shipping) but yes, it appears to be the same one the vendors sell
http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1744&cat=47&page=1&featured=Y

Tim

 

[Joe473]

I agree with Whoaa. If you have them post up you as left alignment specs from the shop. 1/8 toe in is factory. 1/4 seems to work better . Caster helps also..some say more is better but then it could become hard to bring around a turn at highway speed. With stock bushings you are probably close to 1 degree. 3-4 seems nice on mine. On my rig reducing camber actually made a big improvement as well. The .8 to 1.2 factory spec appears high. I think others have found also Radials like just above 0 to .25 camber.

 

[cjscrambler]

Good Morning all. I bought the bushing kit from Jeff's. It had the stock height c bushings, radius arm bushings and trac bar bushings. I also bought a new drag link. I will carry it Monday and get a read out on the alignment. Is their a certain c bushing you recommend for the stock height Bronco? thanks

 

[Joe473]

See what your alignment numbers are first. Then go from there.

 

[Whoaa]

See what your alignment numbers are first. Then go from there.

Good Morning all. I bought the bushing kit from Jeff's. It had the stock height c bushings, radius arm bushings and trac bar bushings. I also bought a new drag link. I will carry it Monday and get a read out on the alignment. Is their a certain c bushing you recommend for the stock height Bronco? thanks

^.......Correct and correct

Kindly keep in mind that Ford bought these front end's from Dana, in the 1960's and 70's there was a wide specification between 0 and 7 degree's of "acceptable" range for the orientation of the wedges on the housing. On the assembly line, Ford stuck the front end under a frame, aligned it within some very wide spec's, mostly using 2 degree C bushings and sent it on its way. No two Bronco's are the same.

There is no such thing as a "standard" C bushing that will fit all stock Bronco's and achieve the same Caster numbers. That said, at stock height, and all stock parts, you'll probably be using either 2 or 4 degree C bushings.

Getting accurate Caster numbers for your particular rig will help a lot and give you a base line to move forward. Of course ultimately we're looking about 6 degree's. If the numbers are grossly off from one side to the other, or both sides are around 0, I would focus on the previous installation of the C bushings that were recently installed.
Either way, you'll need to take it back apart, verify what degree C bushing are installed, and verify that they're installed in the correct orientation before you can make an informed choice of what to do next.

The angle of the drag link and the trac bar needs to be about the same. These two bars need to be parallel to each other. If the trac bar and drag link angles are different this alone can and will cause darting and wondering. I bring this up because you installed a new trac bar. Please verify that these are parallel.

Making several changes at one time can make things more complicated to figure out when something goes wrong. If you change the tie rods, drag link, and all of the bushings, and the steering box, and add power steering...now you have several possibilities and/or new things that are just "different" from how it used to be but aren't nessesarily wrong.

 

[Rustytruck]

Before I spent any money I would make sure the steering box and steering arm are on center.
I would check that your track arm bushings are new.

 

[cjscrambler]

OK it took a minute in my spare time to get it all done.
Camber 1.1 degree left 1.5 degree right
Caster 4.9 degree left 5.1 degree right
Toe ,12 degree
Everything under the front end is new.
The alignment guy drove it and said it still does not drive right. He noticed the shaft in the borgeson box where the steering shaft couples is going in and out when you turn the wheel back and forth. It drives better now however when compensating while driving box is still very quick and darty. I did install 4 degree c bushings this time and new trac bar bushings as well. Thoughts?

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, we need to see some pictures or get more detailed descriptions.
Such as:

1. What year is your Bronco. With caster numbers like that it looks like a '76 or '77, but since you're doing a power steering conversion, I'm guessing an earlier model. If so, you have very high caster numbers for an early axle. Good, but unusual in the Bronco world for sure.
2. Did you replace the steering linkage with stock, or aftermarket stuff? This can be critical info for proper setup.
3. Look yourself and tell us how far in and out the shaft and joint are moving. There is some available movement in some boxes, but this does not sound right.
4. Did you Locktite the shaft?
5. Can you verify that the lower joint/yoke is the correct one for the gearbox's input shaft spline and size? There are so many variations, that this might actually be an issue even though it's a known-Borgeson box. You just never know.
6. Did you follow the other suggestions and make sure that the box is on-center when the wheels are pointed straight?

Some pics of the front linkage would be great. You may not be ready to become a contributor for 12 bucks a year yet, so you won't be able to post a pic to the thread directly. But there are free online image hosting sites you can use so we can see what you've got.

You know... That kind of stuff.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

...On the assembly line, Ford stuck the front end under a frame, aligned it within some very wide spec's, mostly using 2 degree C bushings and sent it on its way.

Can't say you're wrong on this (certainly not of the wide specs part), but I've never heard of anything other than a zero-degree rubber C-bushing coming from the factory, or even available through the dealer or aftermarket.
Doesn't mean they didn't exist of course, I've just never seen or heard of one.

No two Bronco's are the same.

Amen to that!

Paul

 

[cjscrambler]

Its a 71 bronco. Everything is stock replacement. The shaft appears to be moving about 1/8 of inch. The steering is centered with the stock pittman arm on it, The yoke on the shaft is what Borgeson supplied. Thanks