Another dreaded door weatherstrip question

[jerry]

So my story is the same as many before me: replaced the upper and lower door weatherstrip on my '70.

If I slam the door harder than I feel comfortable doing, the latch will make it to the first "click", but does not fully engage. Applied a light coat of silicone on all the weatherstripping surfaces, but that did not seem to help.

Obviously, the weatherstrip at the windshield is making contact first with the window frame. What I am trying to figure out is is this supposed to be compressed between the window frame and the windshield frame, or should it be sitting behind the window frame, compressed between it and the frame.

Suggestions on how to resolve would be much appreciated as well. I tightened down the bolts on the front (windshield) edge of the hard top, partially compressing that (brand new) seal, did not seem to change the fit.

I'll provide a few pics which hopefully explain . #1 is compressed between, #2 is compressed behind. #3 shows this entire gap, which is considerably wider at the top. with #4 shows the new windshield hinge seal.

As always, I thank you all for your help... This is frustrating!

 

[Speedrdr]

Have you tried moving your latch out until the weatherstripping gets ‘ broken in’?
Secondly, does it leak? If it doesn’t leak, I’m not sure I would worry about the gap. But that’s just me.
Randy

 

[jerry]

Have you tried moving your latch out until the weatherstripping gets ‘ broken in’?
Secondly, does it leak? If it doesn’t leak, I’m not sure I would worry about the gap. But that’s just me.
Randy

There is a big gap at the door latch now, a good 1/2 to 3/4" at least. No way it seals at the door jamb... Truck hasn't movedsin about 15 years, my goal is to get it back on the road by month end.

It doesn't have to be perfect - as you see, I don't have a pristine truck. But I would like decent fit to make the heater work as well as possible. Bakersfield had it's one week of fall weather, it's getting cold in a hurry!

 

[Slowleak]

The seal should be inside the window frame. When properly fitted, it would look like your fourth picture.

 

[Rustytruck]

most of the time its the fit at the bottom of the door there is no good space for the weather strip to elongate to when the door closes. slamming the door will only just fatigue the door frame welds then you got real problems.

 

[jerry]

SlowLeak and RustyTruck - thanks for the input. I didn't feel good about slamming the door that hard, didn't think about the top quality 50 year old welds. lol

So the next round of thoughts / questions...

* I believe this is obvious, but the windshield frame and the window frame should be parallel to each other, correct? Thinking out loud, I either need to figure out a way to compress the new windshield hinge seal more / tighten the knobs, re-examine the door alignment (which, aside from the windshield, didn't seem to be too bad), or ??

* I'll look again at the installation of the new bottom door weatherstrip. I did notice that part of it came loose so I'll need to re-attach that anyway.

Funny how something that seems so simple and straight forward can become a nice little pit of work.

Jerry

 

[Slowleak]

Like Rustytruck said, the rubber at the very bottom is usually a problem. There are several layers of rubber there, and then the plastic pins. Many of us have split it open and cut out the extra rubber, or removed the pins and glued it on. I have also seen some where the door strap has bent the metal at the door post enough to cause interference. A rubber hammer is an easy fix for that.....

It helps to isolate the problem if you install the lower seal first. Get it where the door closes fairly and then do the top. Loosen the latch post and move it out a little if you need to. The rear of the door may stick out a bit but you can tighten it up when the seal breaks in.

Body mounts can cause a lot of issues with door alignment. If you are thinking about replacing yours, now is the time to do it.

 

[Rustytruck]

Allot of people shoot themselves on the foot when they replace the lower rocker. the door gap at the bottom of the door is supposed to be wider making the gap even all the way around makes the problem worse.

Don't worry too much Ford didn't get it right either. from the factory back in 1974 the passenger side door on my Bronco was a slammer it went back to the dealer several times to no avail. when I got it I took it apart several times before I gave up. finally fixed it when I bashed in the passengers side rocker and had to replace it then it finally got fixed.
The factory screwed allot of stuff on my Bronco trying to get them out the door.

 

[Bronco4x4]

What size gap should the door bottoms be?

 

[Rustytruck]

its in the factory service manual which I don't have access to their 300 miles away.

 

[DirtDonk]

* I believe this is obvious, but the windshield frame and the window frame should be parallel to each other, correct?

Yes. They are not always precise, but they are usually very close to parallel.
And the fit over the seal is as was said. You can see in your first pic where the gasket is fully exposed, it has double-lips so to speak. The door frame goes "over" the first one, but "behind" the front one so that it's literally compressed between the door frame and the windshield frame. A bit of the rubber might pooch out a little bit due to being compressed, but it's rarely enough to make it stick out proud of the frame.

But the door has to be square in the opening and lined up with the hard body panels before you match the windshield frame to the window frame. Otherwise you're just asking for a mismatch elsewhere, or later down the road.

Thinking out loud, I either need to figure out a way to compress the new windshield hinge seal more / tighten the knobs, re-examine the door alignment (which, aside from the windshield, didn't seem to be too bad), or ??

Your seal might be holding the frame too far forward. I know there was a discussion recently about it being correct the way you have it with the bulb forward, but I've never seen them that way from the factory I don't believe.
Mine and all the others I've seen put the bulb to the rear of the hinge. At the opening basically, rather than at the hinge pin area.
Reversing yours (as big a pain as that may be) would I think allow the frame to fall a little bit further back. And probably seal just as well or better.

I know in the other thread it was mentioned that this position was the way the factory had it (was it jckkys' Bronco?) for that '77 in question, and I can't question that because it's still a 1-owner Bronco and had never been removed. Hard to argue with that, other than other inconsistencies Ford managed to accomplish.
Heck, maybe they even flipped them either way on the assembly line depending on which way it fit best!

But either way, your bolts/knobs are not sufficient to pull the frame back. It's the top that puts the strength on the frame mount. The bolts hold it in place when there is no top, but they just don't have the leverage down at the hinge level to put much rearward pressure on it.

* I'll look again at the installation of the new bottom door weatherstrip. I did notice that part of it came loose so I'll need to re-attach that anyway.

Did you glue it on everywhere else? Or is this a trial fit so far?
Another test you can perform to see where it's tight and when, is to slowly close the door until you start to feel the first resistance. This position can vary and will tell you what's tight first. In my case it was the big forward "blob" of reinforced rubber that seals the large open area between the bottom of the windshield frame, the corner of the door, the fender and the dash. Many of them are too thick, too hard, or just not shaped right for the location they're in. In my case, there is still daylight there when you shut the door!

Another area is the front vertical edge just below the area just mentioned. This front ridge and the rear one are the only parts of the body where you can actually make a bit of a difference by bending the body panel inward slightly to reduce the pressure on the seal. But if these are not causing the trouble (in most cases they are not) then you don't want to do anything there.
The base of the door opening that the others were talking about is a common issue because the seals are just too hard compared to the originals. Unfortunately there is really nothing you can do body-wise on this area because it's just too much a part of the structure.
Which is why some have resorted to cutting layers off the back of the door seal to allow it to soften up.

The original seals were more of a type I'd call "sponge rubber" because they felt like they were mostly air with a little rubber holding it together in a cohesive bundle. The old stuff was just so compressive it never caused an issue with closing the door even when they were brand new.
Aftermarket stuff, not so much...

Paul

 

[jerry]

So of course you guys are 100% spot on. The weatherstrip at the horizontal piece at the bottom of the door is the problem.

I started playing with it today and will continue to fiddle until it fits. Wish there was a better product available...


Any, I appreciate everyone's comments and help - thank you again.

 

[Rustytruck]

at least these days you have super glue to work with if you need to section a gasket you can superglue it back together and it stays.

 

[jerry]

That's true. I already cut out the back with the pins and that wasn't enough. So the surgery will continue.

 

[mpboxer]

I found the rubber bunch in the jamb near the top hinge kind of where the dash meets (hope that makes sense haha) contacts the door is my culprit. New seals went in a year ago and things are getting better even though I have to slam still. My strikers are out a little so I don’t have to slam as hard. Passenger side is worse as I don’t use that as much.

 

[DirtDonk]

That's where both of mine were touching down first. If you close the door very easily and slowly you will find where it starts to bind up first. In my case the door would stop while it was still 4 or 5 inches away from the latch because it hit that big chunk at the front.
The real kicker for me though was that even though that part touched first, it did not even come close to sealing even after the door was fully latched!

So mine do close reasonably well now, but that bit still does not fully seal and I have wind whistle from the passenger side until I crack open my driver's side wing vent.

Paul

 

[mpboxer]

I thought a picture might help. The part with the red arrow.

P.S. I have a little wind whistle on the passenger side too haha. Once the seals break in more and I move my striker in I think it will all work out.

Mike