New guy frustration/ timing chain issues

[Jec0402]

Hello all, I a new guy to the early bronco life. I purchased my 1968 bronco and knew that I had to be diligent with my preventative maintenance which lead me all the way down the path of tearing the front end of the motor down to the timing chain which also has to be changed. My frustration is in that I’ve had to take multiple parts back to my local auto parts stores ( auto zone, O’relly’s, Advanced Auto) because they have given me the wrong parts.
Currently I’m on the hunt for a proper fitting Timing chain kit. The last one was not even close.

 

[jamesroney]

Hello all, I a new guy to the early bronco life. I purchased my 1968 bronco and knew that I had to be diligent with my preventative maintenance which lead me all the way down the path of tearing the front end of the motor down to the timing chain which also has to be changed. My frustration is in that I’ve had to take multiple parts back to my local auto parts stores ( auto zone, O’relly’s, Advanced Auto) because they have given me the wrong parts.
Currently I’m on the hunt for a proper fitting Timing chain kit. The last one was not even close.

6 Cyl or V8?
Please fill in your profile and sig line with relevant info and location. and this will make things easier.

 

[Jec0402]

V8 289 2 barrel carb

 

[jamesroney]

V8 289 2 barrel carb

First hit I get at oreillys is a Cloyes C3014K and it looks right to me.

What did you buy, and how is it wrong? Pics would be great.

 

[Jec0402]

Yes the first one I bought was a C3014K. I added a pic to show that one ( longer in length) then the one I just pulled off my bronco.

 

[jamesroney]

Yes the first one I bought was a C3014K. I added a pic to show that one ( longer in length) then the one I just pulled off my bronco.

You need to try again. The timing set that came in the box is not for your 289. Someone put the wrong parts in the box.
That cam sprocket is marked with a Ford E3AE-6256-A3A, which is a 1983+ sprocket for a 351W. So there’s no telling what that chain is out of. Also, the crank sprocket is a multi-key sprocket. The Cloyes C3014K is single keyed. That thing looks like a C3065 double roller chain. I have no idea what the chain is out of. The Windsor uses the same length chain as the 302. So it’s all boxed wrong.

 

[Jec0402]

And this is why I love this Forum, Thanks Jamesroney for the help.

 

[SteveL]

Out here I've found the employees at the local napa stores to be more knowledgeable than the people working for the big chain stores. Also the parts like starters, alternators ps pumps tend to be better quality.

 

[DirtDonk]

There are so many ways for these things to “become“ mis-boxed anymore.
And now add to that online ordering.
Someone probably ordered the wrong part online, didn’t want to send it back, or wasn’t allowed to, went down to the local parts store and bought the correct one and threw the bad one in the box and returned it.
These days, even when you return the wrong part and let them know it’s the wrong part, instead of going back into the return pile, someone puts it back on the shelf for the next person to go through the same thing.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I always figured a lot of the mis-boxing was someone not knowing what they had, so pull both options and pick the one that looks right. While they are both on the counter the boxes get swapped. The unused on goes into the wrong box and back on the shelf. The right one doesn't care what box it leaves the store in as the box will be in the trash in a couple hours anyway.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep. Another likely scenario…
I bet we could list at least 10 different ones here.

 

[jamesroney]

I always figured a lot of the mis-boxing was someone not knowing what they had, so pull both options and pick the one that looks right. While they are both on the counter the boxes get swapped. The unused on goes into the wrong box and back on the shelf. The right one doesn't care what box it leaves the store in as the box will be in the trash in a couple hours anyway.

Guilty.

I once had about a dozen brake wheel cylinders unboxed checking bore and port configurations. I can guarantee that there’s at least one box in the store has the wrong part in it…because the part I brought home had the wrong box around it.

 

[Jec0402]

Update: OK so I found a guy at NAPA that went the extra mile for me and we came to the conclusion based upon my VIN and inability to find the correct fitting part that I might NOT have a 289. Sooooooo I went home, pulled the starter and came up with the Block Stamp of: C8OE-6015-A

C: 1960s
8: Year number
O: Signifies the vehicle it was made for: Fairlane (All years) and Torino 1967-1976
E: Signifies a Parts group, E for Engine
-
6015: is the Engine Assembly
-
A: I don’t know this one

Enginelabs.com ID’s this as a 302 Windsor small-block, 2 bolt main

New question going forward (possibly a stupid one) so am to I assume that when hunting for parts I should now ID the vehicle as a 1968 Fairlane to get proper Engine parts Such as the timing chain I’ve been looking for?

PS: Gold Star for any of you that can tell me what the 7HIO means above the Block stamp.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Not really. That's the engineering number. Has to do with when the casting was last designed. Not when it was made. Not what parts were installed in/on it. Not even what vehicle it was installed in.

There is original parts, that are sometimes not great. Nylon coated timing gear is how most were built. Quiet running. But the nylon breaks off over time. The normal replacement is all metal parts that age better. That's the standard replacement.

 

[jamesroney]

Update: OK so I found a guy at NAPA that went the extra mile for me and we came to the conclusion based upon my VIN and inability to find the correct fitting part that I might NOT have a 289. Sooooooo I went home, pulled the starter and came up with the Block Stamp of: C8OE-6015-A

C: 1960s
8: Year number
O: Signifies the vehicle it was made for: Fairlane (All years) and Torino 1967-1976
E: Signifies a Parts group, E for Engine
-
6015: is the Engine Assembly
-
A: I don’t know this one

Enginelabs.com ID’s this as a 302 Windsor small-block, 2 bolt main

New question going forward (possibly a stupid one) so am to I assume that when hunting for parts I should now ID the vehicle as a 1968 Fairlane to get proper Engine parts Such as the timing chain I’ve been looking for?

PS: Gold Star for any of you that can tell me what the 7HIO means above the Block stamp.

You are going to have to make a choice about who you believe, and you are also going to have to start learning a new language if you plan to start decoding Ford part numbers. @Broncobowsher is still giving you great advice. But ALL advice is context specific.

First, 6015 is not an engine assembly. 6015 is a block foundry casting root number. The prefix is C8OE, which is 1968 Intermediate Car. So don't stop at Fairlane and Torino. There are Mustangs, Falcons, and Cougars and a few Montego's in the intermediate platform.
7HIO = 7H10 = August 10, 1967 in your case. That is not the "Block Stamp" It is the Block casting number. The Block Stamp is located on the driver's side cylinder head deck, next to the timing cover. and it's stamped.

C8OE-6015-A the -A means the first major version or revision of this part. It is hugely important when you have multiple designs running concurrent in the engineering design workflow. The difference between an "A" and a "B" could be a V8-289, or a I6 200. It can be very important.

The C8OE-6015-A is a cylinder block cast in the Cleveland, OHIO foundry. It was NOT cast in the Windsor, Ontario, Canada foundry. The C8OE-A block is a 4 inch bore, 8.2 deck small block. It usually has the numbers "302" cast in the lifter galley. In 1967, and 1968, you could get a C8OE-A block in a 289, or a 302 depending on how it was built. So your C8OE-A, "302 Windsor Block" was available in a 1967 Ford Bronco (and Mustang) as a 2bbl, 289 engine from the Cleveland Engine Plant. Nothing to do with 1968, or Windsor, or a 302. (But it was an Engine Block.)

Yes, for certain parts, it is vastly easier to source parts for a 1968 Ford Mustang 289-2bbl, VIN-C. But this discussion is not remotely related to the timing chain. Every Ford small Block, (including 351W) from 1962 to 2004 uses the same 10.62 inch long timing chain with 58 links.

 

[DirtDonk]

So what engine letter designation does your vin include?
Does it say that it is in fact a 302?
Or did you post that up already?

 

[Jec0402]

You are going to have to make a choice about who you believe, and you are also going to have to start learning a new language if you plan to start decoding Ford part numbers. @Broncobowsher is still giving you great advice. But ALL advice is context specific.

First, 6015 is not an engine assembly. 6015 is a block foundry casting root number. The prefix is C8OE, which is 1968 Intermediate Car. So don't stop at Fairlane and Torino. There are Mustangs, Falcons, and Cougars and a few Montego's in the intermediate platform.
7HIO = 7H10 = August 10, 1967 in your case. That is not the "Block Stamp" It is the Block casting number. The Block Stamp is located on the driver's side cylinder head deck, next to the timing cover. and it's stamped.

C8OE-6015-A the -A means the first major version or revision of this part. It is hugely important when you have multiple designs running concurrent in the engineering design workflow. The difference between an "A" and a "B" could be a V8-289, or a I6 200. It can be very important.

The C8OE-6015-A is a cylinder block cast in the Cleveland, OHIO foundry. It was NOT cast in the Windsor, Ontario, Canada foundry. The C8OE-A block is a 4 inch bore, 8.2 deck small block. It usually has the numbers "302" cast in the lifter galley. In 1967, and 1968, you could get a C8OE-A block in a 289, or a 302 depending on how it was built. So your C8OE-A, "302 Windsor Block" was available in a 1967 Ford Bronco (and Mustang) as a 2bbl, 289 engine from the Cleveland Engine Plant. Nothing to do with 1968, or Windsor, or a 302. (But it was an Engine Block.)

Yes, for certain parts, it is vastly easier to source parts for a 1968 Ford Mustang 289-2bbl, VIN-C. But this discussion is not remotely related to the timing chain. Every Ford small Block, (including 351W) from 1962 to 2004 uses the same 10.62 inch long timing chain with 58 links.

Jamesrone, I’m just trying to navigate some unknown waters here. And. Let me be perfectly clear, I appreciate everyones input here. Let’s hit the reset button and try a do over.

I tore my engine down to the timing chain that needs to be replaced as well as the sprockets. The one I took off my block is the shorter of the 2 that has the nylon on the larger sprocket. There are only 29 links on the chain and when I’ve been to every auto part store in my area, they keep coming up with the longer timing chain. This morning was my 3rd try.

The significance of me looking up the number I found on the block was to see if the good people in this bronco community could help me determine why I can’t seem to find the appropriate replacement timing chain. I did not know that a 289 and a 302 all use the same timing chain. I’m not well versed in the Ford Block # decoding so I found a webpage that gave me the decoding info so if that is incorrect, my bad, I centrally don’t wanna spread bad information. If you are telling me that C8OE-6015-A isn’t enough to determine if it’s a 289 or a 302 then I believe you.

But the end goal of this tread is to try and figure out how to get a timing chain kit that fits and works for my motor So I can get the old girl on the road again and enjoy some family time in the bronco. Again I thank you all for any input you may have to get me to the end result.

 

[jamesroney]

Jamesrone, I’m just trying to navigate some unknown waters here. And. Let me be perfectly clear, I appreciate everyones input here. Let’s hit the reset button and try a do over.

I tore my engine down to the timing chain that needs to be replaced as well as the sprockets.(I’m going to reattach the picture to this reply). The one I took off my block is the shorter of the 2 that has the nylon on the larger sprocket. There are only 29 links on the chain and when I’ve been to every auto part store in my area, they keep coming up with the longer timing chain. This morning was my 3rd try.

The significance of me looking up the number I found on the block was to see if the good people in this bronco community could help me determine why I can’t seem to find the appropriate replacement timing chain. I did not know that a 289 and a 302 all use the same timing chain. I’m not well versed in the Ford Block # decoding so I found a webpage that gave me the decoding info so if that is incorrect, my bad, I centrally don’t wanna spread bad information. If you are telling me that C8OE-6015-A isn’t enough to determine if it’s a 289 or a 302 then I believe you.

But the end goal of this tread is to try and figure out how to get a timing chain kit that fits and works for my motor So I can get the old girl on the road again and enjoy some family time in the bronco. Again I thank you all for any input you may have to get me to the end result.

Hello, and don't take anything personally. Nobody here is the enemy.

You did the right thing by tearing down the front of the engine and getting rid of that plastic timing sprocket. those things are junk.

It just happens that your C8OE block is one of the "unicorn" part numbers that is a super rare exception in Ford part numbering. So you just happened to hit a nerve. There is no other block that I can think of that has a "future-date" on it. Almost all other numbers correspond to their intended design deployment. But the C8 block came out in the 1967 model year, and that is VERY unusual. It just happens that the Windsor Foundry was making 289's and the Operations team wanted to get additional capacity from the Cleveland Foundry. By the time the Engine plant was ready to deliver product, they had already tooled up in anticipation of the 1968 model year. There was no way that the Cleveland Engine Plant was going to re-cast a new block just so that they would have part numbers that made sense. So they started supplementing 1967 model year engines with their "future 302."

I'm telling you that the C8OE-6015-A block is a 4 inch bore 8.2 inch 90 degree V8 small block that was used to build both 289's and 302's.

Aside from all the wierdness in the block numbering, lets look at your specific situation. You claim to have a timing chain that has 29 links. It's funny, but the Cloyes spec is exactly double that at 58 links. So I think you are counting visible "links" when they mean for you to count both pairs of links. Every small block Ford timing set I have in the shop is 58 pins, and 58 links, and 10.62 inch long if you fold the chain in half. I'll post a pic.

I only have double roller here, but count your pins, and compare them to my pins. You should see 58.

 

[Jec0402]

So what engine letter designation does your vin include?
Does it say that it is in fact a 302?
Or did you post that up already?

Hello, and don't take anything personally. Nobody here is the enemy.

You did the right thing by tearing down the front of the engine and getting rid of that plastic timing sprocket. those things are junk.

It just happens that your C8OE block is one of the "unicorn" part numbers that is a super rare exception in Ford part numbering. So you just happened to hit a nerve. There is no other block that I can think of that has a "future-date" on it. Almost all other numbers correspond to their intended design deployment. But the C8 block came out in the 1967 model year, and that is VERY unusual. It just happens that the Windsor Foundry was making 289's and the Operations team wanted to get additional capacity from the Cleveland Foundry. By the time the Engine plant was ready to deliver product, they had already tooled up in anticipation of the 1968 model year. There was no way that the Cleveland Engine Plant was going to re-cast a new block just so that they would have part numbers that made sense. So they started supplementing 1967 model year engines with their "future 302."

I'm telling you that the C8OE-6015-A block is a 4 inch bore 8.2 inch 90 degree V8 small block that was used to build both 289's and 302's.

Aside from all the wierdness in the block numbering, lets look at your specific situation. You claim to have a timing chain that has 29 links. It's funny, but the Cloyes spec is exactly double that at 58 links. So I think you are counting visible "links" when they mean for you to count both pairs of links. Every small block Ford timing set I have in the shop is 58 pins, and 58 links, and 10.62 inch long if you fold the chain in half. I'll post a pic.

I only have double roller here, but count your pins, and compare them to my pins. You should see 58.

I laid mine out and put a tape up to it for comparison sake. You are 100 percent correct 58 pins. I will go back to the auto parts store tomorrow and try again. Thank you sir.

 

[DirtDonk]

Up until now the only issue I ever heard of when people were looking for timing chains and gears was the two different depths of (I believe) the cam gear that were found to have a different offset each other.
Don’t remember the specifics of that, but it was common for people to complain about getting a cam gear that didn’t work, or just didn’t look like the previous one.
The first I actually ever heard of it was when I bought a timing set from the local Kragen store and in it was a little piece of paper that said watch out for the cam gear. Make sure it lines up correctly.
Luckily, mine did.