WH one wire alternator help

[gr8scott]

1) a good battery with the poles reversed so the positive terminal is not sitting so close to the sheet metal grounded side of the engine bay? No i haven't searched before I typed so I will go do that.

Seems you have a group 24F battery? A group 24 will have the poles reversed.

 

[904Bronco]

Yeah Doug, but remember, it’s quality, not quantity!

 

[CA650]

@CA650 you'll love that alternator. I use the same one, purchased in 2011 and still going strong.

View attachment 914446

So far I love the function of this alternator but I will say its been more of a problem than I expected. It has some wires that somehow deal with the operation of the alternator so in theory it is a "1 wire" alternator but I had this same black AND WHITE wire disconnected twice in and the alternator doesn't function without it.
I'm sure there is a good reason for it to be exposed and removable instead of internal or soldered in place. but for my application there is no reason for that wire not to be permanently connected.

 

[DirtDonk]

So far I love the function of this alternator but I will say its been more of a problem than I expected. It has some wires that somehow deal with the operation of the alternator so in theory it is a "1 wire" alternator but I had this same black read wire disconnected twice in and the alternator doesn't function without it.

What Black w/red wire is that? Where is it connected, and are you describing part of the alternator, or part of the body harness?
Don't you mean the White w/black wire? That's what it sounded like you were describing earlier.
Sorry about the extra hassle, but it's a necessary evil whenever you remove the alternator for service or whatever, and have to unplug it from the harness. Those wires that were connected already when you received the unit, will sometimes have to be removed from the unit when it's disconnected and moved out of reach of the wires. But replaced right where they were previously, for proper function when the unit is reinstalled.
I guess that means that, when you first buy it, it's a 1-wire unit. But any time you remove it entirely from the vehicle, it becomes a 3-wire alternator again!

I'm sure there is a good reason for it to be exposed and removable instead of internal or soldered in place. but for my application there is no reason for that wire not to be permanently connected.

The good reason they are exposed, is because a 3G alternator was originally designed as a full 4-wire alternator. To be a 1-wire (it still has 3, but you only have to connect 1) it utilizes a self-exciting internal regulator, in place of the non-self exciting unit. But by design, it still must retain it's exposed components in order to utilize the existing, or included 3G connector. So even though it's internally regulated, some of it still shows up on the exterior.
The 2 remaining wires (Yellow w/white and White w/black) must remain where we connect them, and Ford intended, even if you remove or otherwise mess with the alternator for whatever reason.
I suppose that, because they are so short, any time you remove the alternator you must "unplug" it from the rest of the harness. This dictates that you do disconnect the other two wires, since they remain with the plug.

Then when you (or any other mechanic) service the alternator, or remove it to service other parts, it's still required that all the wires go back where they were.
Again, sorry about the extra confusion, but it's all about reconnecting things the way they were when they last worked. Just like pretty much every other component or system on a vehicle.

The Yellow /white voltage sensing wire attaches to the BAT output stud, and the White w/black stator wire attaches to it's mating connector on the side of the alternator. As discussed in this thread.
It's called a "1-wire" alternator because, at least in the beginning, you only have to connect one wire to the vehicle harness. That wire would be the BAT charge cable to the starter relay and battery.

Sorry to prattle on so, but I figured it would be good to air some of that out.

Paul

 

[CA650]

Yes thanks I meant to type black and white wire - i went back and edited the post. Anyway, I never meant to touch those wires. I think i originally snagged it on something during the initial install and this last time I think my mechanic must have pulled it out accidentally when we had some other issue and then we drove around for a week with no alternator and didn't notice. Don't get me wrong; aside from pilot error the alternator has been strong. I also like the two belt setup you recommended. That has been good too.

 

[CA650]

Seems you have a group 24F battery? A group 24 will have the poles reversed.

I will look into that. Is it the group 24 or the 24R that has the polls reversed?

I don't know why I even have the battery I have. It has worked great so I'm not looking to fix something that isn't broken but I'll have to go shop and see what is actually recommended here.

Never mind I think its the group 24 that has the terminals reversed and the 24R is the opposite and the 24F is something different with the poles matching the 24R but with slightly different dimensions. WTF. I'll look for a group 24 and double check my wiring will still reach.

 

[DirtDonk]

Driving it for a week without noticing the alternator wasn’t working, makes it sound to me like you have a really really good battery!
Inside the cabin, are you running a voltmeter or an ammeter? Either way does the gauge function properly?
Just wondering if there’s a quick and reliable way to verify what’s going on each time you start the engine? Without having to grab a voltmeter that is.

 

[CA650]

I think my kid drove it for two weeks like that and the starter broke in what I think was an unrelated incident since it was the race bearing at the top of the shaft that shredded and was found lying inside the housing below the flex plate when I took it apart.

What's going on is that as long as that white/black wire stays connected I get good output from the alternator and I never, ever think about the battery its strong.

My gauge is a classic instruments bronco gauge. There is a picture of it early on in this post and it does work and it reads almost 14V when this alternator is working properly but I didn't remember what it use to read three years ago when I first posted and so when i looked at it recently and it was close to 12 and I thought:
1) well, I don't remember that gauge being very accurate (not true it is accurate) and
2) I "just" (three years ago) put in that new alternator so that's not a problem.
3) the gauge jumped around some so I assumed it had a loose wire. in reality when that white/black wire is not plugged in the alternator output is erratic .
4) Must be time for a new battery since I never touch it (also not true since the alternator was malfunctioning per our earlier discussion)

Anyway, yes that battery has been awesome gr8scott mentioned he noticed from my video above it was a group 24F so I went back and looked at my own video and its some type of Interstate 24F CCA 800 and CA 1000 RC 125. I don't see that it's even offered anymore. I can't look in the engine right now because as soon as the bronco is operational my kid drives off in it and I don't see him or it again until its broken.

It's always been good on power. I "think" it's a lead acid battery. Changing something that really works well is something I am trying to teach myself not to do... so I'll probably keep running it for a while but the terminals do bother me, the battery vibrates some in its socket and it seems to inch closer to the fender/frame.

But it brings up a question maybe one of you can answer:
I went back and read recent posts from you and others about Optima batteries and that led me to think about AGM batteries.
This battery I have been using has run down before usually when a starter was failing, or someone left the lights on etc. It's rare but it's happened a couple times over many years.
Never have I charged it. Once the alternator was working if I jump started that battery it was strong and just worked the next time it was asked to.
I don't imagine that is good practice, but I never think about it and its always worked off nothing but whatever charge the alternator gives it.

My question is: What behavior would I expect if I used an AGM battery with that alternator?

• I've read here and online that the alternator wont really charge the AGM style battery or at least not reliably. I'm not going to connect this truck to a charger at night. Thant's not happening.
• Is this one-wire alternator acceptable for use with the AGM battery and can I just plug a group 24, 27 or 35 AGM battery in and forget about it - similar to how I have treated/mistreated and abused this battery? All of those fit in my battery tray.
• Is there any extra circuitry that belongs between this alternator and the AGM battery?
• In some earlier post in this forum there was a back-and-forth discussion on the Optima batteries and my conclusion from a quick read was ... wow that is more than I want to know or think about with the batteries.

 

[DirtDonk]

Ha ha! I hear that! But with so many good experiences had by many, and so many bad experiences had by many others, you were bound to hear too much conflicting information!

Personally, I would keep that good battery until it needs to be replaced. Saves you the trouble of reorganizing the cables as well.
Just make sure to tighten the clamp, or replace it with one that will hold the battery tight.
Any battery, in any vehicle, should stay exactly where you put it.
And for a 24F there’s usually enough room to slide the battery towards the driver’s side and radiator, far enough to keep the positive terminal out of harms way for the duration.
Then, when it’s time to replace it, you can get your standard 24 and new cables if you need them.

Just take care of the clamping issue right now.
Doesn’t matter what vehicle, under what conditions, that battery should be tight!
The original factory clamps were halfway decent, but deteriorated rapidly with battery acid around. They were a metal core with vinyl covering, and they turned to dust in just a few short years.
Modern plastic ones are better, if you can find one that fits your battery and your tray, and holds it tight.
Do that first and it will serve you well with different batteries.

 

[CA650]

My clamps look like disintegrated red rubber washers with wing nuts on top of them. if you're talking about those red donut washers as the "clamps", they are so simple i can't imagine a fitment problem finding them or something like it but its good advice to do something because the battery is walking around in there a little.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, I’m sure by now the original one has been replaced at least two or three times.
The red coated steel crossbar design is definitely auto parts store fodder. But everything‘s only as good as the tray is tight.
Is your tray in good shape and bolted securely to the wheel well crossmember? If so, you’re 3/4 of the way there.
The factory battery tray has offset clamp locations. Most aftermarket trays, have clamp holes in the middle. By clamp holes, I mean the openings for the J bolts to fit in.
I’m sure someone here has pictures of an original, but that’s a moot point. Since original reproduction isn’t necessarily the way you want to go unless you’re doing a religious restoration.
Going to the junkyard and looking up Ford truck battery hold downs, if any are left, might be a good thing.
I just went to the dealer back in the day and bought the latest iteration which was circa about 78 or 79. So it was a much heavier phenolic resin type material with larger diameter J bolts.
Very heavy duty and fit the offset holes of the factory tray very nicely. I still have my original tray in fact, except now I have this Bitchin billet aluminum more than a member here made for me! So that’s gonna go under my latest Optima.
Or, if I don’t go with Optima this time, I’ll probably get a Costco AGM.

Anyway, look around for a good set up for yours, if your existing one isn’t fixable. We sell a couple of different varieties.
I haven’t checked auto parts stores fare in a while, but they probably still sell the same old stuff.

 

[904Bronco]

Very heavy duty and fit the offset holes of the factory tray very nicely.

Or if the factory tray is good , make your own hold down...