'73 Bronco VIN Verification Question

[jettwein]

Sorry for the long post, but the context is important. I have a '73 Bronco that has a salvage title. I bought it in 2006, registered it in CA, etc. In 2013, I sold it to a co-worker, moved to FL, and then ended up buying it back from him in 2018. I had it retitled in FL, with what amounts to a salvage/rebuilt title. In 2020, we moved back to CA, and I drove it until the FL tags ran out, and then parked it until this past week. Went to get it re-registered in CA, through my local AAA office, and that went surprisingly smoothly. They "verified" the VIN from the Marti plate I have in the glovebox, but when the guy went to check the existence of the federal safety sticker in the door jamb, not surpisingly, there isn't one. He said he wasn't able to simply check the "missing" box in that section, and that I'd have to have CHP do a VIN verification. All of the local offices no longer do salvage VIN verifications (I don't really need the VIN work done anyhow, just checking a freaking box on a form about the safety sticker), and CHP is telling me that I have to take it all the way to El Cajon or Otay Mesa to have it inspected, which is absurd. I've tried finding the VIN stamping(s) on it and cannot locate anything, so I think I'm sorta stuck now and not sure what my path forward is. Anyone have any ideas? I'm not interested in pulling the body off the mounts to inspect the tops of the frame rails at the trans xmember or near the rear shock mount. If that were the path forward, I would probably just go to dirtlegal and pay them $700 for a MN reg, lol.

I have scrubbed away with a wire brush that whole area on the driver's side frame rail between the steering box and the brake link distribution box that is bolted about 8 inches aft of that. It does look like someone in the past scraped away there before me in an attempt to do the same thing.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. I have to figure this is not the first time this has happened!

 

[Bajabrewer]

Sounds like you need a replacement door jamb sticker - https://www.martiauto.com/itemselection.cfm?item=TAGD-73&selecteditem=yes

You can also get a report on how your Bronco was optioned when it was built

https://www.martiauto.com/index.cfm

 

[fatboy]

I was going to post what Rob did, but are you saying that the salvage title does not have the original VIN? If you have the original VIN, I would go to Marti.

 

[Viperwolf1]

You would have a better chance of finding the frame VIN if you looked on the passenger side rail.

 

[dmoses42]

^^ Same place on the top of the frame, just on the passenger side, that's where the VIN is stamped.

 

[jettwein]

Sounds like you need a replacement door jamb sticker - https://www.martiauto.com/itemselection.cfm?item=TAGD-73&selecteditem=yes

You can also get a report on how your Bronco was optioned when it was built

https://www.martiauto.com/index.cfm

Amazing, thank you - I may pick one of these up, although it seems "missing" is a valid option for the inspector, so I'm not sure I need it necessarily. It's locating the VIN that is the issue, but it appears I've been looking on the wring side of the vehicle, lol. I'll check the passenger side tomorrow when it's light out. Thanks all for helping out!

 

[jettwein]

I was going to post what Rob did, but are you saying that the salvage title does not have the original VIN? If you have the original VIN, I would go to Marti.

Salvage title does have the correct VIN. I have the CA title from way back when, but when I moved from CA to FL in '14, Florida wanted to re-title it. That title does have the correct VIN as well, but CA said because it had been out of state, they want to inspect the VIN again, which seems absurd to me, but you can't fight city hall, apparently.

 

[AZ73]

Amazing, thank you - I may pick one of these up, although it seems "missing" is a valid option for the inspector, so I'm not sure I need it necessarily. It's locating the VIN that is the issue, but it appears I've been looking on the wring side of the vehicle, lol. I'll check the passenger side tomorrow when it's light out. Thanks all for helping out!

As Demoses said, the VIN is on the PASSENGER side, top of frame, similar distance back as you were looking on the drivers side.

.

 

[jettwein]

As Demoses said, the VIN is on the PASSENGER side, top of frame, similar distance back as you were looking on the drivers side.

. View attachment 954340

Ok, so aft of the shock mount - thank you!!

 

[Speedrdr]

Pretty close to the starter housing on the block.

 

[jamesroney]

It's a 1973. You will need a FMVSS decal on the driver's door post, and you will need an emissions decal on the engine somewhere. Neither of these are relevant, or interesting. But they are required.

The Vin verifier has to determine the year, make, and model of your vehicle. Based on the year model, they need to determine whether it meets safety standards, and whether it meets emissions. Which it obviously DOES...but how do you prove it?

So you want the frame VIN to be legible on the passenger frame rail. You want a FMVSS sticker with the year model on the driver's door pillar. You want an emissions decal that says it meets EPA, or CA emissions. THEN the vin verifier can check all of the necessary boxes without making a referral to CHP. Easy peasy.

Otherwise, you need to make an appointment with CHP for a Vin verification. But since Covid, CHP is not making in-person appointments. So it is actually impossible to conform to the requirements as a human being. Dealers and dismantlers have a work around. So it's only the very rare individual that gets stuck. If you don't like it...run for state assembly.

Have fun.

 

[El Kabong]

Salvage title does have the correct VIN. I have the CA title from way back when, but when I moved from CA to FL in '14, Florida wanted to re-title it. That title does have the correct VIN as well, but CA said because it had been out of state, they want to inspect the VIN again, which seems absurd to me, but you can't fight city hall, apparently.

The last time I brought something back to CA all they needed was proof that it had been in their system prior. Old registration did that. No VIN check was required.

When I bought my '73 from out of state it needed a VIN check, but because it was '75 or older they didn't look for any emissions info.

It's been awhile, so maybe the rules have changed. I have found that different DMV offices will have different approaches to the same problem. What one says is impossible, another simply handles. Might be worth hitting a different DMV or AAA.

We have also used a paid VIN verifier who came to our house. That was a simple solution with a non-running mustang.

But it sounds like you may already find your solution by looking on the passenger side of your frame. Good luck with the hunt.

 

[jettwein]

I wonder if there's any risk in just buying the sticker from Marti and taking it back to AAA and showing them that I "found" it in the door jamb, and letting them check the box on the form. They already did the VIN verification from the Marti tag I literally double-sided taped to the glove box door. It's not like I'm trying to defraud anyone - this *IS* actually the correct vehicle that matches my title, etc., lol. Not having this sticker is really what is causing me to have to trailer the vehicle almost 100 miles each way to El Cajon to get the VIN person to check the box that the sticker is "missing". The only reason I'm worried about finding the VIN on the frame is that I'm concerned that the CHP person in El Cajon will want to check the VIN again, even though the AAA person already filled out that portion of the form. It's absurd the hoops you have to jump through for this.

 

[SLOWnEASY]

I would get a replacement door jamb sticker from Marti and stick it on where it belongs. Then try your local AAA again. If that fails just go to the next closest AAA or DMV. My experience with AAA and registration things are that if the required is there, they check the boxes. They typically don't say "not so fast, I remember you from last time and you're not going to pull a fast one on me" or anything like that.
I don't know where you're coming from. But if it's running and if I had to go to El Cajon personally I would just drive it there. You can also check with AAA they might be able to provide a 30 day temporary operating permit.

 

[jettwein]

I would get a replacement door jamb sticker from Marti and stick it on where it belongs. Then try your local AAA again. If that fails just go to the next closest AAA or DMV. My experience with AAA and registration things are that if the required is there, they check the boxes. They typically don't say "not so fast, I remember you from last time and you're not going to pull a fast one on me" or anything like that.
I don't know where you're coming from. But if it's running and if I had to go to El Cajon personally I would just drive it there. You can also check with AAA they might be able to provide a 30 day temporary operating permit.

They did indeed give me a 30 day operating permit. That said, this thing is not really "highway compatible" because it just doesn't go that fast. Couple that with the fact that it's 85 miles assuming you take highways, but if I were to try to do surface streets, it'd be an all day affair, lol. I'm in Laguna Beach, and the CHP office is in El Cajon, which means I have to go out and around Pendleton.

I think I'm going to try the door jamb sticker and see if I can just get a different person when I go in, and say, "I wonder if this is the sticker they were looking for?", and feign ignorance. Seems worth a shot.

Someone else mentioned that they were able to, with a copy of the previous CA title and reg, get them to forego the entire VIN verification step altogether. Wonder how common that is.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for the help/advice - really appreciate it!

 

[jamesroney]

They did indeed give me a 30 day operating permit. That said, this thing is not really "highway compatible" because it just doesn't go that fast. Couple that with the fact that it's 85 miles assuming you take highways, but if I were to try to do surface streets, it'd be an all day affair, lol. I'm in Laguna Beach, and the CHP office is in El Cajon, which means I have to go out and around Pendleton.

I think I'm going to try the door jamb sticker and see if I can just get a different person when I go in, and say, "I wonder if this is the sticker they were looking for?", and feign ignorance. Seems worth a shot.

Someone else mentioned that they were able to, with a copy of the previous CA title and reg, get them to forego the entire VIN verification step altogether. Wonder how common that is.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for the help/advice - really appreciate it!

You are doing it wrong.

Try to put yourself in the position of a Public Employee that is trying to ensure that the law is being followed.

The REG-31 Verification of Vehicle is very straightforward. As long as you have everything in place, then any moron can do the verification. YOU are asking a state employee to do something unusual. Do yourself a favor. Stop doing that.

The REG-31 consists of several components. Vehicle identity, vehicle year model, body type, fuel type, number of axles, weight class, odometer mileage, FMVSS certification, and Emissions.

There is no CHP, or AAA or any other person that CAN forego the VIN verification. And you have a piece of paper that has the "remand to CHP box checked. Nobody is going to touch that thing. So stop trying.

0. Take that existing Reg-31 and make it disappear.
1. Get the Correct FMVSS decal from Marti and apply it to the door jamb.
2. Get an almost correct Emissions certificate for your year and type from Osborne, or NPD. (Mustang one's work) Affix that decal to your engine.
3. Ensure that your speedometer is intact, and has a legible odometer.
4. Ensure that the vehicle is "complete" whatever that means. missing seats. dash, engine, or drivetrain will break DMV.
5. Locate the VIN number, Which is located near the starter, stamped on the frame, about 12 inches rear of the shock tower. The NATB guide book shows that this is the ONLY VIN. Clean it, and make sure it is legible. A picture in your phone is often helpful.

Go to any DMV, or AAA, or local Sticker Quicker / registration house.
Pretend that you are absolutely stupid, and ask them for a vin verification. Let THEM tell YOU what you need. Do NOT attempt to be smarter, or more knowledgeable. Just play along. They are licensed, bonded, trained, and certified to do VIN verification. They are experts. Let them.

Do not attempt to go to CHP. Ever since Covid, they no longer accept walk in appointments for VIN verification. They only do scheduled appointments, and they are 6 months out here in Hayward, CA (this was about 3 years ago...might have changed, but I doubt it.)

 

[ntsqd]

I had to have the VIN on the avatar verified some decades ago. The rule at that time was that if it was driveable then I had to take it to the CHP. If it was not, then my local Law Enforcement entity (City Police inside city limits, Sheriff's Deputy if not) could come out to verify it. That was easy, I spent the 15 minutes to pull the engine and set it on the garage floor. Now it does not run. A local LEO came by and looked at it and signed the paperwork.

Might ask to see if that is still an option. Then follow James' advice.
Keep in mind that some DMV folks want to be the smartest person in the room about DMV rules. Assume that they're all like that and let them, even if they aren't.

I have to wonder, does CA know that it was in FL, or just that it hasn't been in the CA system? And does that change anything?

 

[jettwein]

I had to have the VIN on the avatar verified some decades ago. The rule at that time was that if it was driveable then I had to take it to the CHP. If it was not, then my local Law Enforcement entity (City Police inside city limits, Sheriff's Deputy if not) could come out to verify it. That was easy, I spent the 15 minutes to pull the engine and set it on the garage floor. Now it does not run. A local LEO came by and looked at it and signed the paperwork.

Might ask to see if that is still an option. Then follow James' advice.
Keep in mind that some DMV folks want to be the smartest person in the room about DMV rules. Assume that they're all like that and let them, even if they aren't.

I have to wonder, does CA know that it was in FL, or just that it hasn't been in the CA system? And does that change anything?

That's an interesting question. The CA DMV definitely does not know that it's been in CA previously. I mean, if they were to look it up, they would. I have had a few people tell me that I should be able to take in the old CA reg and a copy of the old CA title, plus the FL reg and title, and say, "listen, this was in the CA system, as a salvage vehicle for decades. Can't I just use this as proof?" I've no idea if that will work. I just ordered the door jamb sticker and the rivets to attach the VIN tag into the glovebox door, and I think I'll go back to the AAA office and hopefully get a different guy and feign ignorance, "can't believe we didn't see that sticker before!"

 

[jettwein]

You are doing it wrong.

Try to put yourself in the position of a Public Employee that is trying to ensure that the law is being followed.

The REG-31 Verification of Vehicle is very straightforward. As long as you have everything in place, then any moron can do the verification. YOU are asking a state employee to do something unusual. Do yourself a favor. Stop doing that.

The REG-31 consists of several components. Vehicle identity, vehicle year model, body type, fuel type, number of axles, weight class, odometer mileage, FMVSS certification, and Emissions.

There is no CHP, or AAA or any other person that CAN forego the VIN verification. And you have a piece of paper that has the "remand to CHP box checked. Nobody is going to touch that thing. So stop trying.

0. Take that existing Reg-31 and make it disappear.
1. Get the Correct FMVSS decal from Marti and apply it to the door jamb.
2. Get an almost correct Emissions certificate for your year and type from Osborne, or NPD. (Mustang one's work) Affix that decal to your engine.
3. Ensure that your speedometer is intact, and has a legible odometer.
4. Ensure that the vehicle is "complete" whatever that means. missing seats. dash, engine, or drivetrain will break DMV.
5. Locate the VIN number, Which is located near the starter, stamped on the frame, about 12 inches rear of the shock tower. The NATB guide book shows that this is the ONLY VIN. Clean it, and make sure it is legible. A picture in your phone is often helpful.

Go to any DMV, or AAA, or local Sticker Quicker / registration house.
Pretend that you are absolutely stupid, and ask them for a vin verification. Let THEM tell YOU what you need. Do NOT attempt to be smarter, or more knowledgeable. Just play along. They are licensed, bonded, trained, and certified to do VIN verification. They are experts. Let them.

Do not attempt to go to CHP. Ever since Covid, they no longer accept walk in appointments for VIN verification. They only do scheduled appointments, and they are 6 months out here in Hayward, CA (this was about 3 years ago...might have changed, but I doubt it.)

Thanks for the advice - very helpful. I did locate the frame VIN. I just ordered the door jamb sticker. Oddly enough, the guy at AAA did not fill out a form REG-31. He filled out something called a REG-124. Perhaps because the vehicle is a salvage title? I don't know anything about this process, other than that it's a complete pain in the ass. No one mentioned anything about the emissions cert at AAA, perhaps that was an oversight?

 

[jettwein]

Thanks for the advice - very helpful. I did locate the frame VIN. I just ordered the door jamb sticker. Oddly enough, the guy at AAA did not fill out a form REG-31. He filled out something called a REG-124. Perhaps because the vehicle is a salvage title? I don't know anything about this process, other than that it's a complete pain in the ass. No one mentioned anything about the emissions cert at AAA, perhaps that was an oversight?

Seems from some Googling that the REG-31 is for confirming identity for standard registration or re-registration (out-of-state, junk/salvage), while the REG-124 is to get a new, assigned VIN because its original identity is lost or it's a kit/specially constructed vehicle, which this is not. Seems like I need the REG-31. As in:
REG-31: "Is this car what it claims to be?" (Verification).
REG-124: "This car needs a new identity; let's assign one!"