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Gear ratio recommendation

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
37,066
You don't need a roller block 5.8. However, don't build a 351W w/o a roller cam and rockers beause you lose too much w/o installing a great induction system.

You can retrofit rollers into any 351W block. The problem with the roller blocks is quite frequent cracking from the valley to the #2 cam journal that usually shows in the oil galley "hole" in that cam brg bore. I've found this out from Jim and they are out there so IF you BUY a used 5.8 roller block from those years don't spend any coin till the cam brgs are pulled and you can inspect. I've built more than a few of these and my .02 is to go retrofit rollers in an earlier block.

Also, I know you're not interested but you don't move up the powerband for hp/tq (really) if you start out with double the torque #'s because you put a stroker motor in. :)
If you do an older block, I would still suggest an '84 or newer. For the 1-piece rear main seal.
 

fordguy

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Messages
6,356
Uncut with 33s you are okay with 4.11 as you already have 4.10 in front.

so if your driving includes 2 lane highways and backroads more than interstate 4.11 would do job just fine.. If you go 4.56 your highway cruise RPMs might be higher than 2500, which again 302 doesnt mind but thats not ideal. All in all as folks mentioned 4.11s are just fine. Your 4.5 overall lift will allow 33s from a height perspective (3.5 min lift needed) however with uncut sometimes 33s might rub when you turn full steering. Unless you have some offset on wheels so test those first before deciding gearing options.
My 4r70 changes all of the above. Currently have 4.10s with 32/33 inch tires. Waiting on another trans, should have soon. Will report back.
 

.94 OR

Contributor
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Messages
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Loc.
Willamette Valley, OR
You don't need a roller block 5.8. However, don't build a 351W w/o a roller cam and rockers beause you lose too much w/o installing a great induction system.

You can retrofit rollers into any 351W block. The problem with the roller blocks is quite frequent cracking from the valley to the #2 cam journal that usually shows in the oil galley "hole" in that cam brg bore. I've found this out from Jim and they are out there so IF you BUY a used 5.8 roller block from those years don't spend any coin till the cam brgs are pulled and you can inspect. I've built more than a few of these and my .02 is to go retrofit rollers in an earlier block.

Also, I know you're not interested but you don't move up the powerband for hp/tq (really) if you start out with double the torque #'s because you put a stroker motor in. :)
There are a couple brands of roller setups on the market. Do you have a brand of choice in this?
 
OP
OP
msmith

msmith

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Feb 24, 2019
Messages
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Also, I know you're not interested but you don't move up the powerband for hp/tq (really) if you start out with double the torque #'s because you put a stroker motor in. :)
Not sure what you mean here. Are you referring to replacing the rotating assembly in my 302?
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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Messages
10,604
Loc.
PNW
Johnson and Isky Isky's needle free lifters with cam offer something unique in today's market. An actual warranty when cam and lifters are together. Not sure anybody else in the industry does. Neither of them are cheap but all ya hear about are lifter issues, including mine. I won't put engines together anymore for people I don't know because of that.
 

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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Not sure what you mean here. Are you referring to replacing the rotating assembly in my 302?
I wasn't real clear if you don't know my background-my bad.

I used to spec & build stroker motors that off idle put out about double the torque of a 5.0. So the earlier references above about building a smaller displacement engine to put out a fair bit of power, they were most likely referencing that the HP curve usually starts off a bit higher on the rpm range and that is not an issue with a stroker motor since they have so much more torque and horsepower off idle than any smaller displacement engine.

Torque is what helps a 4500# Bronco get moving-hence the references to the 351 as the longer stroke helps immensely with that. If you couple that with lower first gear tranny's, closer gear splits, add in a torque converter if you run an auto & it all builds into more uuumph to get a Bronco rolling, or climbing up a hill, etc.
 

Chiclassics

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Sep 2, 2025
Messages
253
My 4r70 changes all of the above. Currently have 4.10s with 32/33 inch tires. Waiting on another trans, should have soon. Will report back.
At cruise , transmission doesnt matter it will be 1;1 and diff gearing will be the main differentiator. 4R70 will have better launch due to lower 1st,2nd but will have same effect on 3rd at cruise and 4th(if you ever get to it). Looking fwd to see what your goals are though
 

fordguy

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At cruise , transmission doesnt matter it will be 1;1 and diff gearing will be the main differentiator. 4R70 will have better launch due to lower 1st,2nd but will have same effect on 3rd at cruise and 4th(if you ever get to it). Looking fwd to see what your goals are though
I think the 4r70 hits 4th at 45mph, but not sure where the rpm’s are gonna be. We will see.
 

Bruners4

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Jul 22, 2019
Messages
282
Loc.
1/2 way to everywhere
4R70W ratios are
1st Gear: 2.84
2nd Gear: 1.55
3rd Gear: 1.00
4th Gear: 0.70
I see 1800 RPM in OD at 60 mph with my 33" BFGs and 4.11 gears. 2000 RPM = 70 mph and 2300 rpm = 80 mph. I'm thinking about 4.56 gears for mine would be better for when we get to Colorado.
And it shifts into OD under very light throttle at 37 mph.
 

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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I have no idea if you guys talking about when your OD in your 4r kicks it you are running an Exploder ECU or a stand alone controller like US Shift? With the stand alone you can change all those parameters for when it upshifts, line pressures, downshifts... almost everything you'd ever want to.

PLUS

You can hard wire in two switches so you can lock out OD so it doesn't hunt when in slightly hilly terrain or into high winds AND you can lock out the converter for the same reasons and others of course.

Lot's of flexibility with the US Shift controller.
 
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msmith

msmith

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I wasn't real clear if you don't know my background-my bad.

I used to spec & build stroker motors that off idle put out about double the torque of a 5.0. So the earlier references above about building a smaller displacement engine to put out a fair bit of power, they were most likely referencing that the HP curve usually starts off a bit higher on the rpm range and that is not an issue with a stroker motor since they have so much more torque and horsepower off idle than any smaller displacement engine.

Torque is what helps a 4500# Bronco get moving-hence the references to the 351 as the longer stroke helps immensely with that. If you couple that with lower first gear tranny's, closer gear splits, add in a torque converter if you run an auto & it all builds into more uuumph to get a Bronco rolling, or climbing up a hill, etc.
Yeah, longer stroke gives more torque as well as more displacement. The owner of the machine shop I was going to take my 302 to suggested a 351 or stroking my 302 when I told him it was for a Bronco, so I was wondering if you were kinda doing the same.
 

Chiclassics

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Messages
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I think the 4r70 hits 4th at 45mph, but not sure where the rpm’s are gonna be. We will see.
you would want the RPMs at 2500 at cruise.(ideal for torque, power and good gas mileage)..as nvrstuk said you can adjust your upshifts to your OD hits at those RPMS .
You can hard wire in two switches so you can lock out OD so it doesn't hunt when in slightly hilly terrain or into high winds AND you can lock out the converter for the same reasons and others of course.
yeap
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
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Jun 4, 2002
Messages
37,066
Yeah, longer stroke gives more torque as well as more displacement. The owner of the machine shop I was going to take my 302 to suggested a 351 or stroking my 302 when I told him it was for a Bronco, so I was wondering if you were kinda doing the same.
A 351 already starts larger than you can make a 302 into. If you ever see the insides side by side, Ford put a lot into the 351 to beef it up to the task. Some racers don't like it, too heavy. But if you want reliable easy torque that will last, the 351 has the foundation for it. And room to go even bigger!

General guideline for me is 2000 RPM at 60 MPH. Some leeway on that. If you have a lot of drag (aero, rolling, etc), a little more RPM is fine. If you have light weight, little drag, and ample very low end torque (V8 fox body mustangs) they can roll down the highway at even less. Broncos are not mustangs, they need a bit of RPM at cruising speed. I like to keep enough RPM that you don't force a downshift on every hill. I want just enough RPM to have the driving torque to get up most hills at highway speeds without a downshift.

If you were starting from scratch, I would recommend a little more than the 4.10 gears. But they are really close, close enough actually. Since you already put them in the front, just roll with it. Pretty sure the AX15 OD ratio isn't as tall as what I normally deal with as well, so a touch less axle gear than I normally choose. Yea, the 4.10s are sounding even better. Mu late model daily driver has a 4.3 first gear and 3.69 axle ratio, I belive that is really close to the AX15 first gear and 4.10s. That is a nice ratio. Usable in daily driving, skippable if already in a roll as well. Not too low for actual street use. If you ran 4.56 gears I feel first gear may put you into no mans land. Too low for normal driving, but 2nd is too high to skip first. The 4.10s look better and better the more I think about them.
 

fordguy

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Jan 23, 2005
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4R70W ratios are
1st Gear: 2.84
2nd Gear: 1.55
3rd Gear: 1.00
4th Gear: 0.70
I see 1800 RPM in OD at 60 mph with my 33" BFGs and 4.11 gears. 2000 RPM = 70 mph and 2300 rpm = 80 mph. I'm thinking about 4.56 gears for mine would be better for when we get to Colorado.
And it shifts into OD under very light throttle at 37 mph.
That is great info for me. My ECU controls my trans, programmed by Garry. Those BFGs are not quite 33 inches?
 

fordguy

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you would want the RPMs at 2500 at cruise.(ideal for torque, power and good gas mileage)..as nvrstuk said you can adjust your upshifts to your OD hits at those RPMS .

yeap
I have OD switch. ECU so shift points are fixed for me.
 

fordguy

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Bronco Guru
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Jan 23, 2005
Messages
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A 351 already starts larger than you can make a 302 into. If you ever see the insides side by side, Ford put a lot into the 351 to beef it up to the task. Some racers don't like it, too heavy. But if you want reliable easy torque that will last, the 351 has the foundation for it. And room to go even bigger!

General guideline for me is 2000 RPM at 60 MPH. Some leeway on that. If you have a lot of drag (aero, rolling, etc), a little more RPM is fine. If you have light weight, little drag, and ample very low end torque (V8 fox body mustangs) they can roll down the highway at even less. Broncos are not mustangs, they need a bit of RPM at cruising speed. I like to keep enough RPM that you don't force a downshift on every hill. I want just enough RPM to have the driving torque to get up most hills at highway speeds without a downshift.

If you were starting from scratch, I would recommend a little more than the 4.10 gears. But they are really close, close enough actually. Since you already put them in the front, just roll with it. Pretty sure the AX15 OD ratio isn't as tall as what I normally deal with as well, so a touch less axle gear than I normally choose. Yea, the 4.10s are sounding even better. Mu late model daily driver has a 4.3 first gear and 3.69 axle ratio, I belive that is really close to the AX15 first gear and 4.10s. That is a nice ratio. Usable in daily driving, skippable if already in a roll as well. Not too low for actual street use. If you ran 4.56 gears I feel first gear may put you into no mans land. Too low for normal driving, but 2nd is too high to skip first. The 4.10s look better and better the more I think about them.
That’s what these test are for lol. I am running the 4.10 with used tires before I make a move on tire size and final gear ratio. Tires are cheaper than gearing maybe? What calculator do yall use?
 

.94 OR

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I put a spreadsheet together to help me visualize the gearing differences. I can change out the tire size and R&P in the highlighted cells and it will update.
The AX15 and M5OD-2 are very similar across the board. My NP435 really shows the gear splits.
As mentioned earlier, 60 mph @ 2000 and I tried to keep the upper shift point at roughly 3000 rpm's.
 

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Bruners4

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I've used this Gear Ratio Calculator for years.
https://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
It lets you have two calculations side by side to review the differences.
BFG even states in their tire specifications that their 33x12.5R17 is only 32.5' in diameter. I've not measured the exact rollout.
I'm also using an Explorer ECU tuned by EFI Guy to control my transmission. OD button is a requirement.
 

mdainsd

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4R70W ratios are
1st Gear: 2.84
2nd Gear: 1.55
3rd Gear: 1.00
4th Gear: 0.70
I see 1800 RPM in OD at 60 mph with my 33" BFGs and 4.11 gears. 2000 RPM = 70 mph and 2300 rpm = 80 mph. I'm thinking about 4.56 gears for mine would be better for when we get to Colorado.
And it shifts into OD under very light throttle at 37 mph.
Thanks, this is helpful. Im putting my 74 back together with a 4R70W with US shift. I think Im going no bigger than 33s and I want 2000 RPM in overdrive to produce 70mph. Its also getting a 427 CI engine. So replace the 3.50s with 4.11s.
 

ntsqd

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Jan 30, 2005
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Upper SoKA
Not a fan of "Rubber Overdrive", gear it where you want to be with the desired tire size.

No tire is it's stated OD, none. 31's are never 31" tall, 33's are never 33" tall, 35's are never 35" tall. Look at the mfg's specs to get what they say is the actual OD. The pendantic will point out that rolling radius is always little less than half of the spec OD, but the difference between actual RPM at a MPH and the calculated RPM is rarely enough to truly matter.
 
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