Axles leaking with new set 20 bearings

[davisjstone]

As part of a re-gear for a 4R70W, I opted to get a a new third member. Went with a complete 3rd member from quick performance for 35 spline axles. New pair of 35 spline axles from WH with the set 20 bearing already installed. 74 bronco, with 10 inch drums according to my research and using the backing plate part number which I can make out most of the numbers (Wagner 8017 drivers side)

Pulled the old axles and third member. Pulled out the old seals as circled in the picture. Ran a finger of oil on the set 20 seal and slid the new axles in and bolted them up. They seemed to slide in easily and I don’t remember giving any extra persuasion with the tap of a mallet or anything. Everything seemed to go quite smoothly. Also replaced rear drum brakes with all new components.

Noticed some oil runs on my tires. Pulled the wheel and drum and it looks like both axles are leaking pretty good. I'm not on the road yet, but just by spinning the wheel by hand a few revolutions, I can see oil dripping.

What did I do wrong?

 

[jamesroney]

Why is there a picture with the seal pressed into the housing end? I don't think you can get a 35 spline shaft thru that seal.

 

[davisjstone]

Why is there a picture with the seal pressed into the housing end? I don't think you can get a 35 spline shaft thru that seal.

That’s the original seal I removed.

 

[Ol'Blue]

I had the same issue. This thread may help. Checking the breather, using Hylomar sealant etc.

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/sealing-axles-with-set20-bearings.328890/page-2

Good luck

 

[Timmy390]

The old pic with the seal still in place. It appears to have been leaking before the axle swap? It looks nasty like rust or mud or something mixed with gear oil in the cup.

I would check the bearing cups for damage or pitting from rust. Mine were damages due to a bearing failure at some point in its life. The bearing (over time) oblonged the the cup. I had to replace the housing cups to get things to seal properly.

Tim

 

[davisjstone]

The old pic with the seal still in place. It appears to have been leaking before the axle swap? It looks nasty like rust or mud or something mixed with gear oil in the cup.

I would check the bearing cups for damage or pitting from rust. Mine were damages due to a bearing failure at some point in its life. The bearing (over time) oblonged the the cup. I had to replace the housing cups to get things to seal properly.

Tim

Tim, good observation. I cant remember what they looked like when I pulled them. I'll pull the axles and check the cups for damage more closely.

Some threads recommend using a sealant/silicone on the set 20. Seems like that should be my next move.

 

[davisjstone]

some

I had the same issue. This thread may help. Checking the breather, using Hylomar sealant etc.

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/sealing-axles-with-set20-bearings.328890/page-2

Good luck

Thanks! So seems like the Hylomar (Hylomar M?) did the trick? Any application tips or just put a bead on the set 20 seal and the bearing cup?

Hylomar M seems to be hard to come by online. Any similar products or is Hylomar the best option?

 

[Ol'Blue]

I used this one on the set 20 where the bearing cup meets the bearing (very light) and the axle tube where bearing cup meets. The area where yours looks rusty/muddy.

I cleaned that area up with light sand paper and soft wire wheel on the drill. Mine was nasty too.

After I got the bearing seated I put a small amount in-between the bearing cup and shim plate. Thats another thing. Do you have the thin shim that goes in between the end of the axle tube and brake backing plate? I don’t know if that comes on all years or different thicknesses but maybe a factor. Other may know.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CFH9GZG/?tag=classicbroncos-20

 

[Apogee]

... I don’t know if that comes on all years or different thicknesses but maybe a factor. Other may know.

Ol'Blue may be referring to the axle housing flange gaskets, for which there is one for each axle housing flange configuration; small bearing, big-bearing old-style, big-bearing new-style (Torino, aka "medium-bearing", etc). The original ones were always embossed steel with tangs in the fastener holes to retain the retainer bolts AFAIK, but I've seen some paper ones in more recent times, obviously without the tangs.

Fel-Pro #55036 would be the correct part number for the big-bearing old-style ends IIRC, 2.375" x 3.500" rectangular pattern with 1/2" retainer bolts.

 

[davisjstone]

Ol'Blue may be referring to the axle housing flange gaskets, for which there is one for each axle housing flange configuration; small bearing, big-bearing old-style, big-bearing new-style (Torino, aka "medium-bearing", etc). The original ones were always embossed steel with tangs in the fastener holes to retain the retainer bolts AFAIK, but I've seen some paper ones in more recent times, obviously without the tangs.

Fel-Pro #55036 would be the correct part number for the big-bearing old-style ends IIRC, 2.375" x 3.500" rectangular pattern with 1/2" retainer bolts.

Thanks. I didn't use a flange gasket, nor was there a shim. I have a "medium" setup with 10" brakes and big bearing housing so I'll have to track down which Felpro PN is the correct one

 

[davisjstone]

some

Thanks! So seems like the Hylomar (Hylomar M?) did the trick? Any application tips or just put a bead on the set 20 seal and the bearing cup?

Hylomar M seems to be hard to come by online. Any similar products or is Hylomar the best option?

Good stuff. I'll give it a shot and report back.! Unfortunately, cant get to it until after Christmas now.

 

[davisjstone]

Long post.. I need a sanity check for amateur hour over here.

Update: Went to pull the axle(s) today. Pulled a drum first and upon further inspection, it thinks its brake fluid leaking. It did not have the gear oil smell and left a less oily film in my fingers when compared with gear oil. I pulled the boot back on the wheel cylinder and one side of it was leaking for sure. I pulled the cylinder out, took it apart, cleaned everything and put it back together. One of the pistons (the leaking side) seemed to be pushed in much farther than the other. I'm guessing it was pushed in slightly past the centerline and brake fluid was escaping. Before taking it all apart I placed a small pic in the leaking side and I could feel where the fluid passageway from the brake line entered the cylinder (if that makes any sense).

Picture #1 is of the non-leaking side. Picture #2 with the circle it the leaking side. Picture #3 is with everything put back together.

See any issues?

I will pull the other side to see if it's the same problem with the wheel cylinder but guessing it is (fluid trails on both rear tires). All new brake components which were installed by someone else. That same person reportedly bled the brake system.

Any idea why or how the piston would be pushed in so far?

 

[SLOWnEASY]

The brake shoes and drum should pretty much center the pistons. It's Just a guess but maybe the springs are weaker on one side than the other allowing the pistons to be offset. Either that or the shoes got pushed to one side while you were pulling the drum and there is actually nothing wrong.

For the future as far as when you were looking at what the leak fluid was. If it's brake fluid it will dissolve and wash off your fingers with just water.

 

[EPB72]

Long post.. I need a sanity check for amateur hour over here.

Update: Went to pull the axle(s) today. Pulled a drum first and upon further inspection, it thinks its brake fluid leaking. It did not have the gear oil smell and left a less oily film in my fingers when compared with gear oil. I pulled the boot back on the wheel cylinder and one side of it was leaking for sure. I pulled the cylinder out, took it apart, cleaned everything and put it back together. One of the pistons (the leaking side) seemed to be pushed in much farther than the other. I'm guessing it was pushed in slightly past the centerline and brake fluid was escaping. Before taking it all apart I placed a small pic in the leaking side and I could feel where the fluid passageway from the brake line entered the cylinder (if that makes any sense).

Picture #1 is of the non-leaking side. Picture #2 with the circle it the leaking side. Picture #3 is with everything put back together.

See any issues?

I will pull the other side to see if it's the same problem with the wheel cylinder but guessing it is (fluid trails on both rear tires). All new brake components which were installed by someone else. That same person reportedly bled the brake system.

Any idea why or how the piston would be pushed in so far?

the picture maybe decieving but looking at the inside of wheel cylinder with the red circle ... looks like the rubber cup is installed backwards , and was there a spring installed between the rubber cups ?

 

[davisjstone]

The brake shoes and drum should pretty much center the pistons. It's Just a guess but maybe the springs are weaker on one side than the other allowing the pistons to be offset. Either that or the shoes got pushed to one side while you were pulling the drum and there is actually nothing wrong.

For the future as far as when you were looking at what the leak fluid was. If it's brake fluid it will dissolve and wash off your fingers with just water.

When I get into the other side I’ll see if the leaking fluid will wash off with water.

I wonder if the springs on the shoes could be in the wrong spot? My kit had 3 springs. Green, blue, and a standard color. I have the green spring on the primary shoe which looks to be thicker and shorter when compared with the blue spring that I have on the secondary shoe.

 

[davisjstone]

the picture maybe decieving but looking at the inside of wheel cylinder with the red circle ... looks like the rubber cup is installed backwards , and was there a spring installed between the rubber cups ?

Yes there was a spring between the cups.