Dana 44 inner c cut and turn

[widowmaker77]

So I made a post a few weeks back about narrowing a high pinion 78/79
Axle and I really appreciate all the help I got with this https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/narrowed-78-79-dana-44-castor.324365/
I did end up buying the axle but I’m thinking I might would like to use it for a different f150 project. Sooo I’m leaning more toward cutting and turning a spare 73 bronco Dana 44 housing. I have a couple of question I was hoping a couple of guys would be kind enough to answer any this.

I’m thinking about cutting the wedges off to set the pinion angle with new 2 degree c bushings. Tacking those in place Then setting the castor angle.
Ive read several threads about all of this but not sure about a couples of things here. I’ve seen some talk about measuring the castor angle before cutting them I’ve seen some say they just cut the welds ,turned the c’s till they get 6-7 degrees on a angle finder then weld them
Out.

So my first question is which way is correct?? In my mind I can just cut the c loose move it til I get 7 degrees and it’s good. Am I missing something in my line of thinking??
the spare housing I have is not installed so checking the castor angle before hand ( like I’ve read some have done) will be difficult

 

[bigmuddy]

Best of luck, I can't answer your question as I haven't completed this on my bucket list of bronco "to do" items.

Great long conversation here:https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/knuckle-grind-and-turn-updated-progress.113516/

I also recall one that was very informative from a member called Bax showing how he did his. It's here but I didn't have time to look for it.

Follow up with more post after you figure it out to help someone down the road!

 

[widowmaker77]

Best of luck, I can't answer your question as I haven't completed this on my bucket list of bronco "to do" items.

Great long conversation here:https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/knuckle-grind-and-turn-updated-progress.113516/

I also recall one that was very informative from a member called Bax showing how he did his. It's here but I didn't have time to look for it.

Follow up with more post after you figure it out to help someone down the road!

Yes sir this is one of the articles I’m referring to about getting castor reading before then moving the c a certain amount. I’ve also read the one Bax wrote and if I’m not mistaken he just cut everything loose set pinion angle tacked wedges then set castor at like 6 degrees, tacked thenc’s pulled axle and welded everything out. So in my mind I don’t see why I can’t do the way Bax did.
If I try to check Castor before I’ll have to pull current axle, install spare housing, take measurements then pull the housing out cut everything a loose. THEN REINSTALL it set all measurements tack weld pull it back out then
Weld solid. Just trying to be sure I can eliminate doing all those steps.

 

[bigmuddy]

I guess I am missing something but I don't understand the need to cut and reweld the wedges, when turning he C's.
Just cut and turn the C's resulting in a better pinion angle and more castor, then adjust from there with to get more or less with bushings. I guess I may need to take another look at some of these threads again?

 

[widowmaker77]

I guess I am missing something but I don't understand the need to cut and reweld the wedges, when turning he C's.
Just cut and turn the C's resulting in a better pinion angle and more castor, then adjust from there with to get more or less with bushings. I guess I may need to take another look at some of these threads again?

Cutting the wedges is strictly for setting optimal pinion angle. I’m sure if you just went with say 2 degree bushings driveshaft angle would still be good. Just me looking at the c’s, it looks like it will be much easer to cut the weld out of the inner c if the wedges are out of the way. (The weld goes into the c about a 1/8 of an inch or so) They are really close together and I’m scared I’ll cut too deep in the housing. So that’s my reasons for thinking about cutting the wedges off. Not really necessary I guess.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Not really a good reason to cut wedges off and weld them back on. You can get all the caster with bushings.

Its when you can't get enough caster, the pinion angle is also a limiting factor. That is where you back off the bushings to get a good pinion angle. Then cut and turn the OUTERS to the caster.

Change the relationship between the pinion and the knuckle. Changing the wedges does not correct that relationship. Only turning the outers does.

 

[widowmaker77]

Not really a good reason to cut wedges off and weld them back on. You can get all the caster with bushings.

Its when you can't get enough caster, the pinion angle is also a limiting factor. That is where you back off the bushings to get a good pinion angle. Then cut and turn the OUTERS to the caster.

Change the relationship between the pinion and the knuckle. Changing the wedges does not correct that relationship. Only turning the outers does.

I defiantly agree it’s not necessary to cut the wedges off. Just seems like it would make cutting the c’s off way easier without butchering them.
What are your thoughts on cutting the c’s off installing housing, set everything at ride height and then set them at positive 6-7 degrees.
I’m currently running 3.5 duff coils and 35’s with 7 degree bushings and stock arms. I’m going back with 2 degree bushings.

 

[jamesroney]

So I made a post a few weeks back about narrowing a high pinion 78/79
Axle and I really appreciate all the help I got with this https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/narrowed-78-79-dana-44-castor.324365/
I did end up buying the axle but I’m thinking I might would like to use it for a different f150 project. Sooo I’m leaning more toward cutting and turning a spare 73 bronco Dana 44 housing. I have a couple of question I was hoping a couple of guys would be kind enough to answer any this.

I’m thinking about cutting the wedges off to set the pinion angle with new 2 degree c bushings. Tacking those in place Then setting the castor angle.
Ive read several threads about all of this but not sure about a couples of things here. I’ve seen some talk about measuring the castor angle before cutting them I’ve seen some say they just cut the welds ,turned the c’s till they get 6-7 degrees on a angle finder then weld them
Out.

So my first question is which way is correct?? In my mind I can just cut the c loose move it til I get 7 degrees and it’s good. Am I missing something in my line of thinking??
the spare housing I have is not installed so checking the castor angle before hand ( like I’ve read some have done) will be difficult

You are overthinking this. But here's some context.

There are two fundamentally different ways of building an axle.

1. Build it on a bench. -assemble everything to a spec, weld it, and bolt it into any random Bronco.
2. Build it in-frame. -assemble it in the Bronco, fit it and weld it to your specific Bronco.

There are also two fundamentally different types of radius arms.
1. Factory arms.
2. Caster corrected arms.

@Broncobowsher is right about the process IF you are using factory arms with a factory located transfer case. No need to remove wedges.

Here's a pic of a Bronco that I did last year, running caster corrected Duff long arms. On that one, I did cut off the wedges and relocate them for zero degree bushings. Here's also a picture of a Bronco I did this year, with factory arms in the factory location. If you look closely, you will see the wedges remain factory welded.

For YOU, since you have the luxury of building the axle in your own Bronco...it's different than for me, when I build one to put in some random Bronco that I've never seen.

 

[widowmaker77]

You are overthinking this. But here's some context.

There are two fundamentally different ways of building an axle.

1. Build it on a bench. -assemble everything to a spec, weld it, and bolt it into any random Bronco.
2. Build it in-frame. -assemble it in the Bronco, fit it and weld it to your specific Bronco.

There are also two fundamentally different types of radius arms.
1. Factory arms.
2. Caster corrected arms.

@Broncobowsher is right about the process IF you are using factory arms with a factory located transfer case. No need to remove wedges.

Here's a pic of a Bronco that I did last year, running caster corrected Duff long arms. On that one, I did cut off the wedges and relocate them for zero degree bushings. Here's also a picture of a Bronco I did this year, with factory arms in the factory location. If you look closely, you will see the wedges remain factory welded.

For YOU, since you have the luxury of building the axle in your own Bronco...it's different than for me, when I build one to put in some random Bronco that I've never seen.

Thanks James! I fully understand what
You and broncobowsher are saying here about not cutting the wedges. Am I right though in just simply cutting the inner c welds a loose and rolling it back till I get a positive 6-7 reading in my angle finder?
So

 

[jamesroney]

Thanks James! I fully understand what
You and broncobowsher are saying here about not cutting the wedges. Am I right though in just simply cutting the inner c welds a loose and rolling it back till I get a positive 6-7 reading in my angle finder?
So

Yup. But you have to think about things a LITTLE. When you cut thru the inner C welds, you don't want to go too deep into the axle tube, but you do have to get thru the weld. Also, the inner C to tube is an interference fit, and they don't just fall off. You will need to persuade them to move. Which means that the axle housing itself moves around a lot.

So if the axle were bolted down so it couldn't move, then yes...just cut thru the welds and roll it back. But the axle will flop around, and the inner C will be stubborn, AND if you remove both sides then you lose your reference. (because your other inner C got moved)

I also don't like to play around with my protractor very much, so I set the inner C at dead level, and roll the pinion to the desired angle. (which is the desired pinion angle plus your 6-7 degrees of caster) It's a PITA to set one side caster at 7, move to the other side, try to roll that side to reach 7, swat it with a hammer, and have the protractor fall off the housing as the housing falls off the stands.

 

[widowmaker77]

“AND if you remove both sides then you lose your reference. (because your other inner C got moved)”
when you say you lose”your reference” is that a measument I will need? This may be part of my first question about whether It is necessary to take castor readings before I cut the c off? Or not worry about that and simply cut the c off roll it to 7 and weld as long as the axle is bolted in, pinion set and at ride height)
I think I have a good idea about what I need to do but just trying to make sure I’m not overlooking something important.

 

[Apogee]

FWIW, when I did my HPD44, I did cut the wedges off not only to narrow them to EB width, but also so that I could run whatever pinion angle I wanted paired with the degree radius arm bushings I wanted. I cut the C's off, pressed them off the tube (no small feat), cleaned up both the C's and tube ends and then reassembled everything under the rig at ride height, which is a key consideration. My knuckles now sit with 6° caster at ride height, increases to 12° caster at the bump stops and drops to 0° caster when the suspension tops out, and my pinion is virtually inline with my t-case, but offset to the driver's side slightly since I'm running full-width.

Just my opinion, but moving the wedges is way easier than the C's.

 

[widowmaker77]

Thanks for the input @Apogee I appreciate it! Before you cut the c’s off did you take any castor measurents or just went straight to cutting them off then set them to 6 degrees after you set pinion angle and weld them out?

 

[widowmaker77]

This is the first post from the link @bigmuddy posted at the top. It also the reason I keep asking about taking a castor measurement before cutting anything in order to use it as a reference point.

“I need a second opinoin and a sanity check before I weld this back together.

I ground the weld off of the knuckle to the axle tube and am turning the knuckle back 9 degrees to correct castor and driveline angle. I have a 5 inch lift, TRO steering and death wobble. Right now there is 7 degree C-bushings in it. I thought about extended radius arms, may still do that, but I think this is a better idea.

So my thinking is rotate the knuckle back 9 degrees and go back with 2 degree or even stock C-bushings. I'm shooting for about 5 degrees castor but need a sanity check on my cipherin'. I marked the end of the axle tube and the knuckle with a chisel before I started for reference. In the third pic you can see I moved it about 1/8th of an inch so far. I figure I need to go .2146".
Here's my math; axle tube O.D. at knuckle is 2.732" so the circumfrence is 8.5828". 9 degrees of that is .2146" (8.5828/360x9). Heat it, pound it 'til the marks are that far apart.
Am I way off base here?

I did a search but only saw the one post by Lars about 5 years “

 

[mudstud]

@widowmaker77 I want to see this when you finish.

 

[widowmaker77]

@widowmaker77 I want to see this when you finish.

Yes sir. You still around my area? I’ve basically finished my 66 for the most part. You may have seen it around town. Doesn’t drive good at all. Trying to fix that now.

 

[mudstud]

Haven't seen it yet. The 66 looks good.

 

[nvrstuk]

This is the first post from the link @bigmuddy posted at the top. It also the reason I keep asking about taking a castor measurement before cutting anything in order to use it as a reference point.

“I need a second opinoin and a sanity check before I weld this back together.

I ground the weld off of the knuckle to the axle tube and am turning the knuckle back 9 degrees to correct castor and driveline angle. I have a 5 inch lift, TRO steering and death wobble. Right now there is 7 degree C-bushings in it. I thought about extended radius arms, may still do that, but I think this is a better idea.

So my thinking is rotate the knuckle back 9 degrees and go back with 2 degree or even stock C-bushings. I'm shooting for about 5 degrees castor but need a sanity check on my cipherin'. I marked the end of the axle tube and the knuckle with a chisel before I started for reference. In the third pic you can see I moved it about 1/8th of an inch so far. I figure I need to go .2146".
Here's my math; axle tube O.D. at knuckle is 2.732" so the circumfrence is 8.5828". 9 degrees of that is .2146" (8.5828/360x9). Heat it, pound it 'til the marks are that far apart.
Am I way off base here?

I did a search but only saw the one post by Lars about 5 years “

Where are the pics?

 

[DirtDonk]

Do you all just make each side the same every time? Or does anyone ever add cross caster?
Or is that just not a thing anymore?

 

[Yeller]

Do you all just make each side the same every time? Or does anyone ever add cross caster?
Or is that just not a thing anymore?

When roads were primarily 2 lane, cross caster made sense, road is crowned so you're always drifting right. Now that so many roads are multi lane and divided, they are still crowned but you drive on both sides of the crown, so you are drifting both ways depending on which lane you are in. So IMHO the theory of cross caster is great in theory, it is no longer relevant as the roads have changed.