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New motor vs EFI cost for 76 302

OzarkSam

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
29
Loc.
Bentonville, AR
Bought this truck a month ago and whoever said the purchase price is just the price of admission or beginning is correct! It’s a sickness. However, I love it so! So, here I am with a good running 302 making 140 hp +/-. The cost including ancillary parts/upgrades and a Holley Sniper; FiTech; or Edelbrock Pro Flo EFI system will be $2,000 to $2,800 depending how many other uprades are done to support EFI. You may somehow get this to 200hp. $2,800 vs $3,000 to $4,000+ for a brand new hipo 302 or 351 making 300hp+. What am I missing here?
 

BanditBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
689
I would say your first reference is pretty spot on for wheel horse power, based on what I saw at our Bronco clubs dyno day. It takes a lot more than $5K to get a Bronco to 300 whp. I also think that adding a throttle body injection system isn't going to net you 60 hp. Consensus that I have gathered, 302, cam, aluminum heads, tuned well, should give you roughly 200 whp on most mustang style roller dynos.

I would be curious to hear if anyone has ran a stock-ish explorer set up on a dyno and what average numbers were.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,527
Volume pricing.
Bang for the buck these days is almost always going to go to the crate motor, depending on what you want.

And unless I'm missing something too, it's going to be hard to gain even that 60hp just by bolting on an EFI setup. Sounds like you're being relatively realistic in thinking you're not going to net the same as a bought crate engine, but I think you're still over-estimating what just swapping to EFI is going to add.
The heads and cam and exhaust are just as big a part of that equation as the induction. So there's your start of that "plus additional support" items list. Which is where a lot of that additional cost comes in.

I have no doubt you could add 20-40bhp to your current setup, but that would be the extreme case I think. If you want more you're going to dig into it for timing chain, camshaft, valve springs, headers and all that good stuff. If you want even more then you can add cylinder heads to the list. Which is putting you fully in the realm of crate motor costs and above. Which already have modern cam and cylinder head choices for the most part.

I'm a fan of EFI and all of my old engines will eventually have it. But comparing a new purpose built engine to just adding EFI to your old seventies vintage smog engine is not a balanced comparison. Price-wise or results-wise.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,527
Remember too, that the method of calculating power output on a dyno will give you unexpected results compared to what the factory ratings were. At least after '72 when they changed to "net" power from the earlier "gross" power ratings method.

For them to be consistent with crate motor dyno results you'd probably have to go back to the '71 and older ratings of 160 to 215 horsepower for the 302 (205 in the Bronco). This was the "gross" power number, while the '76 was rated at "net" power with all the power robbing accessories connected and it tuned to official emissions specifications. I don't think that included drivetrains though, so any chassis dyno is going to give you numbers even lower.
And though I don't know the dynamics of it all, it's very likely a Bronco with 35" tires is going to show a lower number than one fitted with 28" tires. Gearing aside, which could in fact make the numbers look better or worse.

The engine builders are giving you the engine's full potential, so gains over your 140bhp look impressive on paper (and they are!) but you're missing about 30bhp minimum at least, going up from there.

Is your desired result the most power for your dollar? Or less "waste' of natural resources and keeping the original motor with the Bronco? Or something in-between?
And what will you be setting up the Bronco as, and using it for?

Those all might be key factors in which way you go.
But even with their built-in advantage in some cases, you still have to add the peripheral EFI bits to the overall cost. Just like you have to with the stock motor.

Paul
 
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OzarkSam

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
29
Loc.
Bentonville, AR
It is a stock uncut 76 with new BF Goodrich KO2’s in 15-30-9.50 and a new WH stock height stage 3 bilstein setup. Looking for “some” additional power and hopefully more torque. Low end is probably more important to me than big HP numbers......a nice street Bronco with some pull to it. Sam
 
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OzarkSam

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
29
Loc.
Bentonville, AR
LS are great motors and make great power for reasonable cost and for other projects would potentially be the motor of choice. However, not happening in my application in a 76 Ford Bronco. Maybe just put a stroked 351W in it. Good power and torque and a tried and true swap for what my goals are for the truck. Thank you Gentlemen.
 

yakelys69

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
736
Yep, I think the 351 is perfect in our broncos. If I had watched that video or known better 14 years ago it's the route I would have taken. 302 still works pretty good though.
 

cofferjl

Newbie
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
25
If you are looking for some "more power" according to your seat dyno, I would suggest doing a gear swap first depending on the current gears and the tire size. This will give you a more noticeable increase (especially down low in the rpms) per dollar than spending money on engine upgrades.
 

markw

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
2,051
Pretty hard to beat the Blue Print Bronco spec 306. Just got mine running with Fitech injection and very happy with it. As much power as I need in a street Bronco. Excellent bang for the dollar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
I would say your first reference is pretty spot on for wheel horse power, based on what I saw at our Bronco clubs dyno day. It takes a lot more than $5K to get a Bronco to 300 whp. I also think that adding a throttle body injection system isn't going to net you 60 hp. Consensus that I have gathered, 302, cam, aluminum heads, tuned well, should give you roughly 200 whp on most mustang style roller dynos.

I would be curious to hear if anyone has ran a stock-ish explorer set up on a dyno and what average numbers were.

from your dyno days did you get a comparison of engine flywheel power compared to rear wheel power. allot of crate engines have been dynowed and HP known but the Bronco I suspect much more losses through the drive train than say doing a mustang.
 

BanditBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
689
from your dyno days did you get a comparison of engine flywheel power compared to rear wheel power. allot of crate engines have been dynowed and HP known but the Bronco I suspect much more losses through the drive train than say doing a mustang.

Not sure if anyone there had flywheel reference numbers or not. Most of us had built our engines at that time. Crate engines weren't quite as hot then as they are now, even only being 4-5 years ago.

I think most people would guess on the lower spectrum of drivetrain loss, and be upset at the numbers they pulled on the dyno. Most auto Broncos that I have seen see anywhere from 30-50% drive train loss. Big tires, torque converters, and gear driven T-cases will do that easily.

That is why I was curious if anyone has any explorer numbers to share.
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,491
from your dyno days did you get a comparison of engine flywheel power compared to rear wheel power. allot of crate engines have been dynowed and HP known but the Bronco I suspect much more losses through the drive train than say doing a mustang.

Big time... The dana 20 and c4 can soak up some major hp.

Mustang 16-18% and the Bronco was something stupid like darn near close to 30% going from crank to rear tires.
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,491
Bought this truck a month ago and whoever said the purchase price is just the price of admission or beginning is correct! It’s a sickness. However, I love it so! So, here I am with a good running 302 making 140 hp +/-. The cost including ancillary parts/upgrades and a Holley Sniper; FiTech; or Edelbrock Pro Flo EFI system will be $2,000 to $2,800 depending how many other uprades are done to support EFI. You may somehow get this to 200hp. $2,800 vs $3,000 to $4,000+ for a brand new hipo 302 or 351 making 300hp+. What am I missing here?

76 302...low compression, dinky head flow, horrible cam, and tiny carb and intake.

If it's a really low mileage 302 or super tight, a good set of aftermarket alum heads, cam, intake and carb could bring you up to 300 crank hp and still have good street manners. You could push for more hp but then it get's to be higher revving to achieve that hp
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
8,697
I only know 2 Broncos that had flywheel and RWHP #'s to compare. Both were between 32-35% drivetrain loss.

I have not tried it but have heard from a couple reliable sources that large diameter tires kill RWHP dyno #'s also... I can see why. Big tires take HP to rotate the mass, takes bigger brakes to stop the mass from rotating. All kinds of physics going on...

I've always wanted to take a set of 12" wide x 28" tall tires and a set of 40"s to compare the #'s.
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
8,697
Back to a smoggy 302. Like has been said already. You won't get near 60HP with EFI... with a tuned carb you won't gain any max HP #'s. So IF your 302 short block is in good shape then going with something like an Edelbrock top end kit that WH sells would be a good, easy way to gain useable HP. Includes like someone mentioned above- loaded heads, roller cam, retrofit roller lifters, intake and carb/TBI,etc. You will need headers and ANY exhaust system other than a stock 302 muffler & pipe(s). Bolt on for a very noticeable HP gain.

The other thing you will notice is that you will get better mpg when you add these parts for more HP gain. A stock smog motor is lucky to get 10-11 mpg.

3spd or C4?

Everyone says HP isn't cheap, and they are right.

No matter what you do, fix it so you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy driving it... you won't! :(
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
I don't think EFI is going to get you any more real horsepower than a well tuned carb. If you question this, just watch a few dyno videos on utube.
Driveability? Certainly! There are so many variables with a carb that the CPU adjusts for with EFI.
 
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