1967 170 inline six hesitation and shake???

[iSense67]

I do not know the age of the points and haven’t looked at that yet. I haven’t worked on a distributor in years what would I look for? That said I did do a spark test light and all light up fine.

 

[67sport]

So a question more for other guys that know more than me, would a chunk of filler cap gasket be enough to restrict fuel flow as it sloshed around his tank if it had fallen in at some point? Seems like a reach to me.
As far as your points distributor goes, there's not much to them, they need to be clean and set correctly, but I don't believe temperature would affect them at all. Can the condenser in there fail with heat? I think they can, but not confident enough to say you should change it. It's a cheap tune-up part so it can't hurt, just not sure it's your problem.
My 67/289 had a manual choke originally, does yours too (sorry, been 20 years since mine was active)? Where is it set while this is happening? Does it run better if partially choked? Just looking for things that change with temp, before you deep dive into fuel and ignition completely.
I don't have any input on your cut ground wire. There's lots of discussions about how best to deal with the insufficient stock grounding. That likely isn't the root of this issue, but should be addressed as you clean things up.

 

[iSense67]

I took the advice and removed the distributor cap. The cap itself was clean but inside the distributor itself it was dirty. I used an electricians component dry cleaner to remove the gunk. Last picture cleaned One thing I did notice is a 1/4 metal sliver which was odd. When I put it back it fired up perfect but I don’t have time this evening to road test it and will try tomorrow.

 

[iSense67]

So a question more for other guys that know more than me, would a chunk of filler cap gasket be enough to restrict fuel flow as it sloshed around his tank if it had fallen in at some point? Seems like a reach to me.
As far as your points distributor goes, there's not much to them, they need to be clean and set correctly, but I don't believe temperature would affect them at all. Can the condenser in there fail with heat? I think they can, but not confident enough to say you should change it. It's a cheap tune-up part so it can't hurt, just not sure it's your problem.
My 67/289 had a manual choke originally, does yours too (sorry, been 20 years since mine was active)? Where is it set while this is happening? Does it run better if partially choked? Just looking for things that change with temp, before you deep dive into fuel and ignition completely.
I don't have any input on your cut ground wire. There's lots of discussions about how best to deal with the insufficient stock grounding. That likely isn't the root of this issue, but should be addressed as you clean things up.

Yes it does have a manual choke. I need to play with that more when it acts up and will let you know. Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[DirtDonk]

One thing I usually like to see when a distributor has been thoroughly cleaned, is also some lubrication. At least minimally perhaps in the form of WD-40? Anything else more appropriate, like grease on the correct moving parts, would require some more disassembly.

Hard to say, since a super clean mechanism probably works pretty well. And eventually it will get some more oil vapors from inside the engine. Just not sure.
Really just trying to guarantee that the advanced weights and advance plate are working as expected.

Next time you get a chance to mess about with the cap off, grab the shaft and try to move it side to side in any direction. Just to see if the upper bushing is still in good shape or if things are loose and floppy.

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and reconnect that ground wire. Not sure if it was factory or not on the six cylinder engines, but still have yet to ever see one on an Early Bronco with a V8. Which is why so many of us have added them after the fact.

If others with 6's have them, and know the best place to attach it, let iSense know.
I'm curious too if they ever had them from the factory.

paul

 

[DirtDonk]

So a question more for other guys that know more than me, would a chunk of filler cap gasket be enough to restrict fuel flow as it sloshed around his tank if it had fallen in at some point? Seems like a reach to me.

No, not really. Ahh, unless the old "sock" filter has come off or simply disolved over the years.
If the filter at the end of the pickup tube is gone, a bit of gasket could get stuck in the end of the tube. It'd have to be a pretty large section though. The tube is 5/16" diameter.
But hey, if that's the case then it's not as far fetched as we might think. Heck, over the years lots of other stuff could have developed in there. Such as rust...

Can the condenser in there fail with heat? I think they can, but not confident enough to say you should change it. It's a cheap tune-up part so it can't hurt, just not sure it's your problem.

Maybe not with heat if in good shape, but heat AND age? I bet it can.
But here's where we have to be extremely careful. The new condensers are almost worse than starter relays in the reliability department. I know of several people who have bought new condensers only to find them non-functional right out of the box.
Multiple times each!

I don't have any input on your cut ground wire. There's lots of discussions about how best to deal with the insufficient stock grounding. That likely isn't the root of this issue, but should be addressed as you clean things up.

Correct. Not likely to cause a running engine to die, but it's never a bad idea to renew a failed one anyway.
Even if it's not factory, that's exactly where we usually add them on EB's. Most other Ford vehicles were getting them by this time, but not Broncos for some reason.
Curious where on a six cylinder would be the best bolt to attach it to. Valve cover? Distributor attaching bolt? The latter not being the best, but it would be effective as the distributor needs a good ground through the engine block to the chassis to the battery.

paul

 

[1970 Palmer]

I took the advice and removed the distributor cap. The cap itself was clean but inside the distributor itself it was dirty. I used an electricians component dry cleaner to remove the gunk. Last picture cleaned One thing I did notice is a 1/4 metal sliver which was odd. When I put it back it fired up perfect but I don’t have time this evening to road test it and will try tomorrow. View attachment 879279 View attachment 879280 View attachment 879281 View attachment 879282 View attachment 879283 View attachment 879284 View attachment 879285

I took the advice and removed the distributor cap. The cap itself was clean but inside the distributor itself it was dirty. I used an electricians component dry cleaner to remove the gunk. Last picture cleaned One thing I did notice is a 1/4 metal sliver which was odd. When I put it back it fired up perfect but I don’t have time this evening to road test it and will try tomorrow. View attachment 879279 View attachment 879280 View attachment 879281 View attachment 879282 View attachment 879283 View attachment 879284 View attachment 879285

So, I have some questions and observations.

IN the third photo down from the top, what is the loose looking chunk of a part at the bottom of the photo?

The distributor timing advance works by rotation of the plate that holds the points. It needs to move freely by the vacuum diaphragm. You do not want anything rubbing, or restricting the movement. In the photo, it looks like the condenser wire is rubbing the inside of the distributor body? This could cause an intermittent grounding short, of restricted timing advance.

Make sure you test the distributor vacuum advance. Disconnect the vacuum line at the carb, rotate the distributor advance plate against the springs, place your thumb over the end of the line, and if the advance is working, has no vacuum leaks, the plate will stay advanced until you remove your thumb. It's a simple quick test, no gauges involved, and will let you eliminate that part as a possible issue.

Make sure your test the diaphragm in the carburetor "spark valve". It's the part on the side of your carb that looks like a power valve on a two barrel carb.

I would replace your points and condenser with quality part. I would look for NOS parts (Motorcraft) if possible.

John

 

[Bajabrewer]

First off Welcome! I had similar problems when I bought my 66 a couple years ago. I ended up finding a rebuilt 1100 carb(stock) & that made a big difference in how my Bronco ran. Mine had an electric fuel pump(under the hood) already on it when I got it & I wanted to replace it with a stock mechanical one but I could never get it to prime/pump so I installed a Carter P4070 on the frame near the tank where it should be. It ran good like that for a while until I found I had cracked the coil so I replaced that with a stock coil & it ran good again. Last Summer I ditched the original Load-O-Matic distributor & installed an HEI style(with new wires) & now it runs great! It's still a 170 that will never have the amount of power I really want but for now cruising around town it's fine. The ground strap from the body should connect to the engine somewhere - mine doesn't have one there but it may have been removed before I got it. I would reconnect it or replace it with a new one just to make sure it's not an issue. Keep trying & you will figure out the problems, then enjoy the cruising while you plan for the next improvement you want to make.

 

[iSense67]

So, I have some questions and observations.

IN the third photo down from the top, what is the loose looking chunk of a part at the bottom of the photo?

The distributor timing advance works by rotation of the plate that holds the points. It needs to move freely by the vacuum diaphragm. You do not want anything rubbing, or restricting the movement. In the photo, it looks like the condenser wire is rubbing the inside of the distributor body? This could cause an intermittent grounding short, of restricted timing advance.

Make sure you test the distributor vacuum advance. Disconnect the vacuum line at the carb, rotate the distributor advance plate against the springs, place your thumb over the end of the line, and if the advance is working, has no vacuum leaks, the plate will stay advanced until you remove your thumb. It's a simple quick test, no gauges involved, and will let you eliminate that part as a possible issue.

Make sure your test the diaphragm in the carburetor "spark valve". It's the part on the side of your carb that looks like a power valve on a two barrel carb.

I would replace your points and condenser with quality part. I would look for NOS parts (Motorcraft) if possible.

John

Great insights. I also noticed the thing in the bottom it appears to be a magnet or metal something that was connected on the underside of the mechanics of the distributor. Not being an expert I let that alone and simply cleaned out the area. I did find a little sliver of metal in the debris so thought that could have also caused the issue. In the wire connected to the condenser are you saying I should simply push that in so it’s not touching the wall? Appreciate all your help!!!

 

[iSense67]

No, not really. Ahh, unless the old "sock" filter has come off or simply disolved over the years.
If the filter at the end of the pickup tube is gone, a bit of gasket could get stuck in the end of the tube. It'd have to be a pretty large section though. The tube is 5/16" diameter.
But hey, if that's the case then it's not as far fetched as we might think. Heck, over the years lots of other stuff could have developed in there. Such as rust...


Maybe not with heat if in good shape, but heat AND age? I bet it can.
But here's where we have to be extremely careful. The new condensers are almost worse than starter relays in the reliability department. I know of several people who have bought new condensers only to find them non-functional right out of the box.
Multiple times each!


Correct. Not likely to cause a running engine to die, but it's never a bad idea to renew a failed one anyway.
Even if it's not factory, that's exactly where we usually add them on EB's. Most other Ford vehicles were getting them by this time, but not Broncos for some reason.
Curious where on a six cylinder would be the best bolt to attach it to. Valve cover? Distributor attaching bolt? The latter not being the best, but it would be effective as the distributor needs a good ground through the engine block to the chassis to the battery.

paul

I bought the bronco a month ago and it does have a new fuel tank they installed. Not sure but would hope they put in a new pump at that time. That said who knows with this puzzle lol

 

[iSense67]

So, I have some questions and observations.

IN the third photo down from the top, what is the loose looking chunk of a part at the bottom of the photo?

The distributor timing advance works by rotation of the plate that holds the points. It needs to move freely by the vacuum diaphragm. You do not want anything rubbing, or restricting the movement. In the photo, it looks like the condenser wire is rubbing the inside of the distributor body? This could cause an intermittent grounding short, of restricted timing advance.

Make sure you test the distributor vacuum advance. Disconnect the vacuum line at the carb, rotate the distributor advance plate against the springs, place your thumb over the end of the line, and if the advance is working, has no vacuum leaks, the plate will stay advanced until you remove your thumb. It's a simple quick test, no gauges involved, and will let you eliminate that part as a possible issue.

Make sure your test the diaphragm in the carburetor "spark valve". It's the part on the side of your carb that looks like a power valve on a two barrel carb.

I would replace your points and condenser with quality part. I would look for NOS parts (Motorcraft) if possible.

John

I will do all the above. Interesting enough after I cleaned out the distributor. I took it for a long drive. I bet I drive it for an hour or so. It was perfect and no issues. Just as I was heading home it started acting up and then it lost power and backfired like a fire cracker. Makes me think something is happening in the fuel system either in the carb or fuel pump. It seems like it’s running to rich as I can smell it. After it died it started right up and drive perfect again. It’s like a gremlin LOL

 

[1970 Palmer]

I will do all the above. Interesting enough after I cleaned out the distributor. I took it for a long drive. I bet I drive it for an hour or so. It was perfect and no issues. Just as I was heading home it started acting up and then it lost power and backfired like a fire cracker. Makes me think something is happening in the fuel system either in the carb or fuel pump. It seems like it’s running to rich as I can smell it. After it died it started right up and drive perfect again. It’s like a gremlin LOL

You need to diagnose the problem just like they would in a real shop. Your correct, it could be most anything, and intermittent drivability problems are never easy to figure out. But you have to systematically eliminate each operating system one at a time. You really have not given us much diagnostic test information to help you out. You do not want to just start tossing parts at it, because most of the current day replacement part are questionable in quality. The 170/200 engines run great. The load-a-matic carb/distributor has run millions of miles, in millions of FOMOCO cars since the early 1960's. There's no good reason why this issue cannot get repaired. Do not buy a rebuilt carb! You can rebuild your existing carb if that becomes necessary.

John

 

[iSense67]

You need to diagnose the problem just like they would in a real shop. Your correct, it could be most anything, and intermittent drivability problems are never easy to figure out. But you have to systematically eliminate each operating system one at a time. You really have not given us much diagnostic test information to help you out. You do not want to just start tossing parts at it, because most of the current day replacement part are questionable in quality. The 170/200 engines run great. The load-a-matic carb/distributor has run millions of miles, in millions of FOMOCO cars since the early 1960's. There's no good reason why this issue cannot get repaired. Do not buy a rebuilt carb! You can rebuild your existing carb if that becomes necessary.

John

Great advice. I finally gave in and took it to a classic car restoration place. They could not figure it out. They did say the fuel line was not right and could be the issue. They also said it could be the distributor and or the fuel pump. I’m thinking bet h of installing a blueprint bronco 306 so I’m just trying to get it to be reliable.

 

[1970 Palmer]

Great advice. I finally gave in and took it to a classic car restoration place. They could not figure it out. They did say the fuel line was not right and could be the issue. They also said it could be the distributor and or the fuel pump. I’m thinking bet h of installing a blueprint bronco 306 so I’m just trying to get it to be reliable.

So, lets change this up a bit. I had this intermittent bad pain in my chest, I just could not figure it out, so I finely went to a doctor, he said it might be this, or it might be that, not really sure what it might be. So, he recommended a heart transplant just to be sure. Neither of us would accept this approach with our health. Mechanic's are just doctor's that work on vehicles. Your visit to the ER doctor would would have him checking your heart rate, blood pressure, your heart for afib, etc. The mechanic you visited should have given you specific engine diagnostic information about your vehicle. For example the fuel pump and fuel line would be checked by testing fuel pressure and fuel flow volume. If that passes OK, then you move on to the next possible area. One by one, you eliminate the possible problem areas until you find the issue causing your problem.

Here's where you start.

What's the (test meter) voltage with the engine running? What do the points look like? Are they burnt? What's the dwell angle? What's the initial timing set at? Does the vacuum advance actually work? What was that chunk of metal laying under the distributor plate? Did it restrict the plate movement (timing advance)?

What's the cranking compression? Is it low, or uneven? Does oil change the reading?

Valves? I'm not sure without checking when the 144/170/200 engine family got hydraulic lifters. If your 170 has solid lifters, when were thy last adjusted? A tight exhaust valve will cause your miss after it gets fully warmed up.

Pull the top of the carb off and take a look inside the float bowel. It's only about two minutes and ten screws. You want to see a clean float bowel, not dirt, not water, etc. This will allow you to see if the float level is close, it does not even need to be perfect at this point, you just hunting for a larger issue.

I could go on, but it's not rocket science. The shop you took it to, shined you on, they did not invest any effort into helping diagnose your problem, sorry to be blunt.

John

 

[66BlueGoose]

Sounds like fuel starvation more than anything else.

Additional items to check.
- Verify the rubber fuel lines at the fuel pump are good (not rotted or cracked).
- Verify the rubber fuel line at the gas tank.
- Check the plastic line in between for any damage.
- Have you checked the fuel tank for dirt / water / etc.
- Should look at the fuel pickup in the gas tank and the filter screen at the end.
- Is the advance plate in the distributor free and rotating easily?

 

[iSense67]

Great advice I now have my Saturday project and will look at the above to find this gremlin!

 

[iSense67]

Was curious after that last post and I looked closely at the fuel line and noticed this kink just before the rubber extension leading to the fuel pump. It also looked slightly wet from a slight leak in fuel. Obviously the latter needs to be corrected but would this link be enough to cause my issue? If so I’ve never changed a grill line it looks simple but anything I need to know in terms of tire of tube or doi need to do anything to bleed the new line to get any air out? etc The current fuel line sp appears to be a hard plastic.

 

[1970 Palmer]

The reason the plastic fuel line has a kink is because the rubber fuel hose going to the fuel pump is cut "way too short". The engine torques over when driving and you need some slack to adjust for this movement.

It's doubtful that with the very small fuel flow in a small 170 this is your problem, would be my guess.

 

[gnpenning]

Has anyone done a fuel pressure or volume test, Before and after the fuel filter?

Generally the volume test will tell you alot and is free and easy to do using a little common sense.

Put a longer ethenol rated hose going to the pump.

They came from the factory with the black hard hose. Easy to disconnect on both ends and blow through.

Did you say how many fuel tanks it has /had?