1974 Bronco handling issues

[DJs74]

OK guys... I checked tire pressure in all 4 and was around 28 - 30 PSI. I decreased all to 25 PSI. My wife and I just went out and ran it about 30 miles, got some lunch and WHAT A DIFFERENCE already! Highway cruising it drives and feels like a late model truck / SUV. On the rural roads, about 75% improvement.

I think if I can get some more caster in it, I might have something. I can purchase different bushings for the ball joints which should give me some more caster but I will probably sacrifice camber as well. I will adjust the toe to 1/4" as suggested earlier (mainly because its free) and give in another test run. If it still acts goofy on the uneven pavement, I will attempt caster change.

thanks for all the advice & support - not totally resolved by definitely going in a positive direction.

Thanks again,

DJs74

P.S. 74BroncoX: I will post some pics - think I gotta pony up the $12 to become a "contributor" and then I can do some photos. Stay tuned...

 

[DJs74]

Pics of DJs74 Bronco

Here are some pics for all my new friends. Just wanted to let everyone know that other than the paint and the exhaust work, I've done it all myself - every single nut and bolt. Started this project one year ago on April 4th and was pretty much done and on the road in September 2013. But we are never really done... are we!

thanks,

DJs74

 

[DJs74]

couple more pics

Just a few more pics. I elected to go with a roll pan on the rear versus the bumper - thought it would look a little different and very pleased with the result. Problem is, no one offered a roll pan for a Bronco specifically - what I did: I bought a roll pan for a late 60s to early 70s F100 pickup thinking the contours would be close and they were. My body guy simply cut the ends off because the pickup is wider - fabricated some brackets, welded it up and done.
Because of the roll pan, I had to engineer my own hitch but that worked out too because I was able to add some gas tank protection in the hitch.

thanks,

DJs74

 

[surfer-b]

Bronco looks good, very nice, like the tailgate. On the Q about the yokes, that is what I refer to the part that is welded to the axle housing that the knuckles/ball joints go onto, some call them C's.
Also from the pics of the tie rod setup, a TRO and riser trac bar bracket will help with any bump steer you may have, the less of an angle those are the better it will be.

 

[DJs74]

Thank you surfer-b! Yeah, I thought about your post a little bit and then others commented and confirmed it for me about the welded on "Cs" on the dana44 housing. The air pressure adjustment helped tremendously and I will adjust my toe to 1/4" - 3/8" and see how it likes that first. If it still chooses to misbehave, I'll devise a plan of attack to adjust the caster angle and shoot for 5 - 6°as suggested. I appreciate your thoughts, advice and compliments.

DJs74

 

[jlylec]

very nice...love the color! and the tailgate...i've never seen one of those before. Where did you get that?

 

[DJs74]

surfer-b,

what is required to successfully perform the TRO? I've heard of it but never done it. I assume the goal is just flipping the tie rod end for end so it will go down through the steering knuckle as opposed to up through the steering knuckles?

Sorry to ask more advice after getting advice but I want to understand the TRO scenario a little better.

I assume the track bar drop would be necessary if flipping the tie rod to keep the angles as parallel as possible.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am pretty happy with the angle between the two but the angle itself was causing me some concerns about whether or not it is contributing to the whole darting / wandering problem.

thanks,

DJs74

 

[SeanT4x4]

I normally don't like a roll pan but that one looks pretty slick, Nice

 

[Casey835]

DJ I've got TRO and a riser on my trackbar. So I'm not sur how much that helps. My angle are perfect. When I turn the yokes, it will raise my TRO some decreasing my drag link, but won't do anything much for trackbar except turn it into my TRO setup

 

[DJs74]

Hello jlylec,

About the tailgate - it was on the Bronco when i purchased it. What I believe (and I don't know for sure) is that someone replaced the original Bronco tailgate with one off of an F100 / F150. The reason I think that is because the inner panel still has the small tooling stamp "FORD" in the right side and then the outer shell as large "FORD" across the entire width. Whomever did it and for whatever reason, they did a great job and took a lot of time and detail with all the welds. I'm thinking of retro-fitting an 83-91 Ford Ranger tailgate panel onto it at some point. I think the brushed aluminum will match my top and flares and the blue oval will look pretty cool - maybe sometime??

thanks for looking

DJs74

 

[DanHall]

surfer-b,

what is required to successfully perform the TRO? I've heard of it but never done it. I assume the goal is just flipping the tie rod end for end so it will go down through the steering knuckle as opposed to up through the steering knuckles?

Sorry to ask more advice after getting advice but I want to understand the TRO scenario a little better.

I assume the track bar drop would be necessary if flipping the tie rod to keep the angles as parallel as possible.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am pretty happy with the angle between the two but the angle itself was causing me some concerns about whether or not it is contributing to the whole darting / wandering problem.

thanks,

DJs74

You're correct on the concept of the TRO. You'll need to ream the knuckles to flip the tie rod so the hole is tapered in the correct direction. Most of the vendors recommend not dropping the frame end of the track bar as it can contact the drag link. Better option is to use a riser on the axle end. A lot of folks will beef up the linkage in the process with a GM 1-ton conversion. That way you get ends that are easier to find and cheaper when you need to replace one. The links are usually heavy DOM tubing that is cut to length with welded inserts. You'll also have to ream the pittman arm for that one. The track bar riser will also come up above your stock bump stops so you may want to find taller ones.

If you opt for the change be careful reaming the knuckles, you'll go a lot faster than you would think and if you go too far you've got trouble. Just go slow and check often and yoy'll be fine.

 

[DirtDonk]

And even if you don't opt for the more involved method you're discussing, get those angles down no matter what! That means at the very least a dropped pitman arm and dropped trackbar bracket. Not one or the other in your case, but with a few exceptions, always both.

With that 3" lift, you've made those angles too steep to be happy on the street. Not only that, but I'm guessing you moved the steering wheel to re-center it? But even if you didn't, chances are very high that your steering box is no longer centered and that alone, let alone any other inputs, can cause your vehicle to wander and give you that vague and over-reacting feel.

You changed the suspension, so you have to change the steering to compensate. Parallel and equal-length links are important, but keeping the angles to a minimum is important as well.

Adding larger tires, especially with wider wheels, is just adding fuel to the fire.

Paul

 

[DJs74]

Hi DirtDonk!

Thanks so much for you advice - I see what you mean and I agree. As for the steering box, I installed a new Delphi box after I put the lift, new tie rods, steering link and new track bar on the Bronco. I went through the entire articulation of the steering from left to right while counting turns at the steering wheel and then installed the pitman arm dead center. I will look into getting the track bar and pitman arm dropped.

thanks again

DJs74

 

[surfer-b]

surfer-b,

what is required to successfully perform the TRO? I've heard of it but never done it. I assume the goal is just flipping the tie rod end for end so it will go down through the steering knuckle as opposed to up through the steering knuckles?

Sorry to ask more advice after getting advice but I want to understand the TRO scenario a little better.

I assume the track bar drop would be necessary if flipping the tie rod to keep the angles as parallel as possible.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am pretty happy with the angle between the two but the angle itself was causing me some concerns about whether or not it is contributing to the whole darting / wandering problem.

thanks,

DJs74

You are correct, also if you do not have reamer you can use these, http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...de=INSSTEER&Category_Code=STEERINGACCESSORIES and just a 7/8"s drill bit which will make it easier. However if you decide to rotate the Yokes/C's, I would do that 1st then do the TRO and add the riser, this way you want have any interference with the tie rod and trac-bar after the rotation, when the yoke is rotated back for more caster it will raise the tie rod a little more.

 

[surfer-b]

Also as someone mentioned in a previous post now would be a good time to upgrade to a larger tie rod system. I went with the F150 setup, a lot of guys use the Chevy stuff but after I went to the parts store and started doing a little research I found that the Ford TRE's are 2.125" where the chevy 1 tons are only 2.050". These are Moog parts that I checked with the calipers so I went with the Ford stuff. I think Wild Horses sales a 3way adjustable F150 setup just for the Broncos. I used the regular 78/79 F150/Bronco tie rod set up and just cut them down along with a set of knuckles from a 75 Blazer I had. Here are a few pics, the 1st is the stock 76/77 set-up with 2.5" lift, drove OK but just wasn't really what I wanted.
2nd and 3rd pics are of the f150 and chevy TRE's, as you can see the F150 is larger and the taper is the same which I checked.
4th pic is all the new parts and the chevy axles, this is one of the reasons I wanted to upgrade, the chevy Dana 44 axles are much larger than the Bronco 44's. I had the pass side cut down and reslpined. The knuckles are what is referred to as the Dana flat tops, if I did it over I would go with he Bronco knuckles because of 1: the arm where the TRE attaches is higher which raises the tierod up a little more and 2: the opening for the axle is larger from what I have been told, however I did not check this for myself so I cant be 100% sure.
5th: I had to turn down a spindle from a 79 chevy because one of the 75 spindles had some pitting in it and I didn't want to use it.
6th is finished product, much better
Also I wanted to use the chevy disc brake setup, I like them better than the Ford for 2 reasons
1: I like how the chevy calipers float with the pins
2: the chevy upgrades for calipers are almost unlimited if you so desire

 

[DJs74]

Hi surfer-b!

Great information and I am truly appreciative - Unfortunately, I'm a little past being able to financially implement all this. I have already purchased and installed new: tie rods, steering link, ball joints, track bar, steering box, front disc brake conversion, new coils, C bushings and all that goes along with the front end. I also purchased an aftermarket Hellwig antisway bar
My original post seeking help on the handling was more geared towards tweaking what I already have and trying some inexpensive approaches to fine tuning rather than major modifications and reconstruction.
So far, the air pressure change made over 50% improvement and if I can tweak the caster some toward the suggested 6° I'm hoping to be at least more comfortable on the back roads. Right now, it handles and steers like a late model vehicle on interstate / smooth roads.

thanks for all the advice, procedures and photos.

DJs74

 

[rjrobin2002]

First I would adjust your toe in to 1/4" and put some miles on it and see how comfortable you get with it.

Next I would try to get 5 degree caster.

Last i would put these on to try to get flatter angles or TRO and a track bar riser


http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/drop_pitman_6675yr

and this
http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Trac_Bar_Drop_Bracket_6675yr

To flatten your angles. It will cause less left to right movement of the axle that happens with a 3 link front suspension. An adjustable track bar to perfectly center the axle under the bronco will help also.

I have told several people that if anyone ever steals my Bronco and drives it fast when leaving the crime I will find them in a ditch cause they take a while to learn how the handle bumps and turns. I drove a guys Bronco the other day that he said it drove bad and I drove and it felt like as good as any Bronco I had ever driven. He was just not use to the short wheelbase 40 yr old vehicle.

 

[m_m70]

X2 on above post^^^^^^^

 

[DJs74]

Thanks Guys!
Yes - my next move (today) is to revisit the toe and target the front side measurement to 1/4 - 3/8" less than the back side measurement.
Depending upon how that acts and feels, I'm going to get a drop pitman arm and was planning on going with the "drop" track arm bracket versus the "riser" type just because I don't have welding capabilities here and I assume the drop bracket is a bolt on.
My track arm bar and steering link are pretty much perfectly parallel but I really get the whole "too much angle" on both deal. The way I'm viewing it in my head now is: when I turn the steering wheel, the steering link is trying to drive into the ground instead of pushing laterally but because its physically attached to the tie rod, it really has no choice but to go side to side - still, its natural direction of movement is down at the present angle - so I'm probably getting a jerky down/side to side when I'm cruising and the Bronco is bouncing around on uneven roads - exactly what it feels like anyway. As for the tack bar, the whole principle of it is to control & maintain the horizontal centering relationship between the dana 44 and the frame and the greater the angle its sits at, the more compromised it becomes and the less effective it is, i would imagine - what I mean is, there is probably a magical angle that if exceeded, the track arm might actually pull the front end toward the driver side and purposely cause off-centering. I don't think I'm even close to that but when a 3000 lb Bronco with 33s starts dancing on a pothole filled road, who knows what happens with that angle??
The bottom line in my mind right now is: get the steering link and track arm bar as flat to the ground as possible and keep them parallel with each other.

thanks to everyone for their thoughts. other than getting another Bronco (this is my second), meeting my wife and having two great boys - joining this forum was one of my best moves!

hats off and many thanks to the entire CB.com community - you guys & gals are great.

DJs74

 

[DirtDonk]

...I'm going to get a drop pitman arm and was planning on going with the "drop" track arm bracket versus the "riser" type just because I don't have welding capabilities here and I assume the drop bracket is a bolt on.

Well... Yes and no. It does bolt on initially, but you really MUST weld it on for maximum safety, reliability AND handling. Reason I say that is that if you just bolt it on you will get some minor wandering and your tires will follow ruts more.
Welding it on just gets that last bit of wander out of the longer bracket.

...As for the tack bar, the whole principle of it is to control & maintain the horizontal centering relationship between the dana 44 and the frame and the greater the angle its sits at, the more compromised it becomes and the less effective it is, i would imagine - what I mean is, there is probably a magical angle that if exceeded, the track arm might actually pull the front end toward the driver side and purposely cause off-centering. I don't think I'm even close to that but when a 3000 lb Bronco with 33s starts dancing on a pothole filled road, who knows what happens with that angle??
The bottom line in my mind right now is: get the steering link and track arm bar as flat to the ground as possible and keep them parallel with each other.

Perfectomundo and correct.
In a perfect world, the two bars would be level to the ground. That way the shifting of the axle in relation to the frame would be minimized, being through the center of the arc they must travel in.
Any additional angle increases that shift during suspension movement. For our purposes, a little bit extra doesn't make a ton of difference, but like you say, at some point it reaches a tipping point and your negatives outpace the positives. And there's only so much real-estate under an EB so there are compromises.
Any amount you can lessen the angle within reason then, you'll see at least a theoretical improvement. Usually it's more than just theoretical though.

Paul