331 Stroker, 347 Stroker, or 351W? Custom built or crate?

[Sendero]

Hello,

I appreciate you taking the time to read and chime in. All input is welcome.

I am building a 66 Bronco and looking to replace the inline 6 that is in it. I currently have a 92 mustang that was my first car and burned in a barn fire last year, but the motor did not sustain damage. My question is, should I pull the motor out of the mustang and have it bored and stroked to a 331 or 347? or should I purchase a 351W from a reputable crate engine manufacture? I have called 5 engine builders in central Texas where I am located and can't seem to find anyone interested in building my 302. I was told by a machine shop that a builder will likely take better care and do a better job than the quality you will get from a crate factory. Any input? Please note the following:

- I am looking for 350-400 hp or so. I want a mild performance cam, aftermarket heads, and retro fuel injection (not wanting to leave the tall ugly fox body stuff)
- I am looking to run a NV3550 as I want a 5 speed and not an auto. Manual is not negotiable.
- There is some sentiment in keeping the mustang motor but that only goes so far.
- I am not in a time crunch.
- Anyone know a good ole ford small block garage builder here in Texas?

Thanks!

 

[Apogee]

FWIW, I wouldn't trade the torque and reliability of my 351W for a 302. You can make a 331/347 produce similar numbers, but the 351W is going to do it for less money IMO. If I were to swap my 351W for anything, it would be a stroked 351W like a 393, 408, 418, 427, etc., with the 408 being a nice compromise between RPM and torque with the square bore/stroke configuration.

 

[jamesroney]

Hello,

I appreciate you taking the time to read and chime in. All input is welcome.

I am building a 66 Bronco and looking to replace the inline 6 that is in it. I currently have a 92 mustang that was my first car and burned in a barn fire last year, but the motor did not sustain damage. My question is, should I pull the motor out of the mustang and have it bored and stroked to a 331 or 347? or should I purchase a 351W from a reputable crate engine manufacture? I have called 5 engine builders in central Texas where I am located and can't seem to find anyone interested in building my 302. I was told by a machine shop that a builder will likely take better care and do a better job than the quality you will get from a crate factory. Any input? Please note the following:

- I am looking for 350-400 hp or so. I want a mild performance cam, aftermarket heads, and retro fuel injection (not wanting to leave the tall ugly fox body stuff)
- I am looking to run a NV3550 as I want a 5 speed and not an auto. Manual is not negotiable.
- There is some sentiment in keeping the mustang motor but that only goes so far.
- I am not in a time crunch.
- Anyone know a good ole ford small block garage builder here in Texas?

Thanks!

No. Pull the 5.0 out of the 92 and run it as-is, stone stock in the Bronco.

Only a fool would stroke an 8.2 deck small block Ford in a Bronco. There is plenty of room for the 351W. So why would you ever make the spend? If all things were equal, then a 331, or a 347 makes sense. But all things are not equal. You can get a roller 351W from a 96 F150 for $750. You HAVE a roller 302 from a 92 Mustang 5.0. It's not even a question.

And you don't want to put 400 Horsepower in front of a NV3550. If I did that, I would break it.
And you don't want 400 HP in a Bronco. You won't use it, you can't get it to the ground, you don't need it, and if you do ever get it hooked up...you can't steer it, or stop it.

Do youself a favor, and stop looking at magazines, and speed shops, and stop bench racing. Take all the money that you were going to spend on your stroker, and buy induction, exhaust, fuel management, fuel supply, brakes, and suspension. Build a solid, reliable, bulletproof and streetable 240 Horsepower. Then drive it like you stole it.

Let me assure you that it is vastly more fun to drive a slow car fast...than to drive a fast car slow.
That's my $.02.

 

[Sendero]

No. Pull the 5.0 out of the 92 and run it as-is, stone stock in the Bronco.

Only a fool would stroke an 8.2 deck small block Ford in a Bronco. There is plenty of room for the 351W. So why would you ever make the spend? If all things were equal, then a 331, or a 347 makes sense. But all things are not equal. You can get a roller 351W from a 96 F150 for $750. You HAVE a roller 302 from a 92 Mustang 5.0. It's not even a question.

And you don't want to put 400 Horsepower in front of a NV3550. If I did that, I would break it.
And you don't want 400 HP in a Bronco. You won't use it, you can't get it to the ground, you don't need it, and if you do ever get it hooked up...you can't steer it, or stop it.

Do youself a favor, and stop looking at magazines, and speed shops, and stop bench racing. Take all the money that you were going to spend on your stroker, and buy induction, exhaust, fuel management, fuel supply, brakes, and suspension. Build a solid, reliable, bulletproof and streetable 240 Horsepower. Then drive it like you stole it.

Let me assure you that it is vastly more fun to drive a slow car fast...than to drive a fast car slow.
That's my $.02.

Thanks for the input, I should probably mention the mustang motor as 220k miles on it and it is worn out. It needs a freshen up at minimum.

 

[jamesroney]

Thanks for the input, I should probably mention the mustang motor as 220k miles on it and it is worn out. It needs a freshen up at minimum.

Well, that's more than a minor detail, and it changes everything.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Given the choice, I would go with a 351. The 5.0 engine, look inside and my best discription is Dainty, delicate perhaps? 400HP is typically known as the point the block starts splitting in two as well. The 351 has the beef to be a truck engine. The Bronco is no fox body mustang, don't try to treat it as one. The basics of a 351 are just a much more solid foundation.

As for finding a local engine builder, those are getting hard to do these days. Anywhere in the country. Can't help with your location.

 

[SteveL]

351w.....

 

[Jarrett h]

And you don't want to put 400 Horsepower in front of a NV3550. If I did that, I would break it.
And you don't want 400 HP in a Bronco. You won't use it, you can't get it to the ground, you don't need it, and if you do ever get it hooked up...you can't steer it, or stop it.

Me & most everyone w/ a coyote :/

 

[Sendero]

Me & most everyone w/ a coyote :/

 

[Apogee]

Sometimes I wish James would just tell us how he really feels

 

[Sendero]

Maybe I will just LS swap it

 

[nvrstuk]

FWIW, I wouldn't trade the torque and reliability of my 351W for a 302. You can make a 331/347 produce similar numbers, but the 351W is going to do it for less money IMO. If I were to swap my 351W for anything, it would be a stroked 351W like a 393, 408, 418, 427, etc., with the 408 being a nice compromise between RPM and torque with the square bore/stroke configuration.

Everything Apogee said.

A Bronco needs a ton of torque to get moving. Guys that say a 408 has too much power and you'll never need it and can't use it, haven't gone or driven or used a Bronco like I have the past several decades.

Only thing I'd add to Apogee's comments is this. I'd go BluePrint or Jim @ Fordstrokers. From a guy that's built & spec'd engines for decades it's hard not to recommend a "shop" that has the latest, top of the line tech (accurate equip) for building engines.

I love independent shops, dealt only with them when doing the machine work for my engines forever. They are disappearing and the equipment they use is getting older.

Only exception (to my knowledge) to this would be Jim at FordStrokers.com . Guy specializes in Ford Strokers only. Wealth of knowledge and his equip is top notch. Otherwise you need to ask this question to yourself. How many of the exact same engine does the small shop you are dealing with build of that SPECIFIC engine, configuration, build specs (Bronco compared to Mustang), etc, etc. Jim does this but who else does?

BluePrint has some amazing products and warranties to back those products.

Go with a stroker 'cause you will NEVER regret having it.

 

[jamesroney]

Everything Apogee said.

A Bronco needs a ton of torque to get moving. Guys that say a 408 has too much power and you'll never need it and can't use it, haven't gone or driven or used a Bronco like I have the past several decades.

Only thing I'd add to Apogee's comments is this. I'd go BluePrint or Jim @ Fordstrokers. From a guy that's built & spec'd engines for decades it's hard not to recommend a "shop" that has the latest, top of the line tech (accurate equip) for building engines.

I love independent shops, dealt only with them when doing the machine work for my engines forever. They are disappearing and the equipment they use is getting older.

Only exception to this would be Jim at FordStrokers.com . Guy specializes in Ford Strokers only. Wealth of knowledge and his equip is top notch. Otherwise you need to ask this question to yourself. How many of the exact same engine does the small shop you are dealing with build of that SPECIFIC engine, configuration, build specs (Bronco compared to Mustang), etc, etc. Jim does this but who else does?

BluePrint has some amazing products and warranties to back those products.

Go with a stroker 'cause you will NEVER regret having it.

OK, I suppose that I need to build an application matrix, and start giving advice in bins. There are a couple of bins that include people who are made of money, and people who build vs buy. and people who start projects, and people who finish them. Then there are the people who use their stuff, and there's people who leave it on the trailer.

If you have a spot in your garage for twisted off axles, shafts, and broken gears, and you have felt a 35 spline 9 inch ARB slipping at 80 psi...you get a special place in the matrix.
If you have a Bronco in your garage, covered in laundry, with the engine under a tarp in the backyard, and $25K of new Bronco vendor parts still in the box...you get different advice.
If your Bronco is still running, and has something that looks like an old plow welded to the frame horns, and will start if you have a screwdriver...you get different advice.
And if you are pulling parts off of one Bronco to keep the other Bronco running, you get different advice.

There are people that think spending $500 on an engine is too much. There are people that think spending $5k is too little. The Bronco world was much less complex when Broncos were cheap and plentiful. Please forgive me. When the OP @Sendero started with: "I have a 92 5.0 leftover..." I pretty much put him in the "budget" category. The fact that he mandated a Manual Transmission place him in the "I'm actually going to drive it" category. and the "I got time..." means I'm not afraid to do work. And "reputable engine manufacturer" means I'm willing to pay some, but I don't want to get ripped off.

I'm pretty sure that @Jarrett h and his Coyote swapped trailer queens didn't start their builds with: "I got a burned out 92 Mustang..."

So am I the ONLY person that regrets building a fully forged 5.0 roller 347? Yeah, maybe. But I wanted the 8.2 deck so that my induction would fit under the hood. Yeah, I ran SRP flat tops, Eagle Crank, H-beam rods,neutral balance with an E-303 cam with 185 AFR heads, and GT40 induction. And I built it myself, and it wasn't cheap. And yeah, I bought the Motorsport M6010-Boss302 4 bolt main block...just so that I could get a clutch pivot boss cast in the block. And when I got ALL done, I realized that I had invented a really expensive 351W. And I never spun it over 5K rpm, and it was a dumb idea.
When I built my Coyote, I realized that everything on a Coyote just barely doesn't fit. The accessory drive, and lack of OEM parts means that every one of them will be obsolete in 10 years. Most of them are obsolete already. God help you if you need to change a cam phaser and you have an early Gen 1. If you own a Coyote, and you haven't Googled "typewriter tick" then I recommend that you don't. And just remain blissfully ignorant.

So, long intro to a simple answer:
1. More money than brains: Coyote 5.0
2. More time than money: 1996 Ford 351W.
3. I break shit, and like to go fast, and when someone is stuck, they call me: Blueprint 408W.
4. I ain't rich, and I need a Bronco that runs now: Mustang 5.0.
5. I need cheap reliable horsepower, I have no friends, and I don't want any: LS swap.

Done.

 

[rocknhorse76]

OK, I suppose that I need to build an application matrix, and start giving advice in bins. There are a couple of bins that include people who are made of money, and people who build vs buy. and people who start projects, and people who finish them. Then there are the people who use their stuff, and there's people who leave it on the trailer.

If you have a spot in your garage for twisted off axles, shafts, and broken gears, and you have felt a 35 spline 9 inch ARB slipping at 80 psi...you get a special place in the matrix.
If you have a Bronco in your garage, covered in laundry, with the engine under a tarp in the backyard, and $25K of new Bronco vendor parts still in the box...you get different advice.
If your Bronco is still running, and has something that looks like an old plow welded to the frame horns, and will start if you have a screwdriver...you get different advice.
And if you are pulling parts off of one Bronco to keep the other Bronco running, you get different advice.

There are people that think spending $500 on an engine is too much. There are people that think spending $5k is too little. The Bronco world was much less complex when Broncos were cheap and plentiful. Please forgive me. When the OP @Sendero started with: "I have a 92 5.0 leftover..." I pretty much put him in the "budget" category. The fact that he mandated a Manual Transmission place him in the "I'm actually going to drive it" category. and the "I got time..." means I'm not afraid to do work. And "reputable engine manufacturer" means I'm willing to pay some, but I don't want to get ripped off.

I'm pretty sure that @Jarrett h and his Coyote swapped trailer queens didn't start their builds with: "I got a burned out 92 Mustang..."

So am I the ONLY person that regrets building a fully forged 5.0 roller 347? Yeah, maybe. But I wanted the 8.2 deck so that my induction would fit under the hood. Yeah, I ran SRP flat tops, Eagle Crank, H-beam rods,neutral balance with an E-303 cam with 185 AFR heads, and GT40 induction. And I built it myself, and it wasn't cheap. And yeah, I bought the Motorsport M6010-Boss302 4 bolt main block...just so that I could get a clutch pivot boss cast in the block. And when I got ALL done, I realized that I had invented a really expensive 351W. And I never spun it over 5K rpm, and it was a dumb idea.
When I built my Coyote, I realized that everything on a Coyote just barely doesn't fit. The accessory drive, and lack of OEM parts means that every one of them will be obsolete in 10 years. Most of them are obsolete already. God help you if you need to change a cam phaser and you have an early Gen 1. If you own a Coyote, and you haven't Googled "typewriter tick" then I recommend that you don't. And just remain blissfully ignorant.

So, long intro to a simple answer:
1. More money than brains: Coyote 5.0
2. More time than money: 1996 Ford 351W.
3. I break shit, and like to go fast, and when someone is stuck, they call me: Blueprint 408W.
4. I ain't rich, and I need a Bronco that runs now: Mustang 5.0.
5. I need cheap reliable horsepower, I have no friends, and I don't want any: LS swap.

Done.

You forgot one.

6. My mission in life is to break shit so I can build it stronger and break it again. SB460 or blown 418.

That’s where Brian (NVRSTK) comes into play

 

[Jarrett h]

600hp~ 408 stroker checking in!

 

[jamesroney]

You forgot one.

6. My mission in life is to break shit so I can build it stronger and break it again. SB460 or blown 418.

That’s where Brian (NVRSTK) comes into play

YES! but the thread topic was 331, 341, or 351.

and yes, the special @nvrstuk category includes: (Looks like @Jarrett h is in the club.)

6A. When I do get stuck...I call myself.

 

[Yeller]

@jamesroney , I used to be put off by your responses. Then I figured our your just brutally honest and share your opinion and that basically we're on the same page, so now I look forward to them

Quote:
"5. I need cheap reliable horsepower, I have no friends, and I don't want any: LS swap."

This must be talking about me and few select others

in regards to 6A nvrstuk and I call each other to laugh about it

 

[nvrstuk]

I read the first paragraph and I fit into the FIRST MATRIX!! NOT kidding here, I've grenaded a 35 spline 9" with the ARB twisted in half !! I posted pics of it years ago. I hang all the cool lookng twisted off stuff on my I-beam. Axles are too common or else I would have all those 28 spline ones from the HP 289 and toploader 4 spd days.

Steve and I have had some good laughs about it for sure!

I haven't even READ the rest of James's post I am still chucklin' as I type this... I love ANYTHING that isn't stock. Stock means ya bought it, anybody can do that.

Pretty accurate:
"So, long intro to a simple answer:
1. More money than brains: Coyote 5.0
2. More time than money: 1996 Ford 351W.
3. I break shit, and like to go fast, and when someone is stuck, they call me: Blueprint 408W.
4. I ain't rich, and I need a Bronco that runs now: Mustang 5.0.
5. I need cheap reliable horsepower, I have no friends, and I don't want any: LS swap."

 

[nvrstuk]

600hp~ 408 stroker checking in!

#6 600hp- 460stroker checking in!!

My Shorty is getting my old 418 (revised & edited as of May 14th 14th as I am so PO'd at Ford Strokers I'm almost sure an LS with a blower is going in Shorty) with a blower so Tim my buddy from down the road is SPOT ON!!! lol I've definitely turned into a product tester... lol I don't drive any different I just have more torque transfer.
I haven't broken a thing in 6 yrs, seriously- a new record I think. Piston slap is not an issue or something that the owner can create. So not my fault on this 460 Ford Perf issue.

With my only "not-built by me" engine in my lifetime it happened to come from Ford Performance. I am about to turn to the "dark side" because of the way Ford Perf builds/spec's engines and I will be calling in search of friends as an LS swap is looking more tempting every passing week & month as I get the run-around from Ford.

 

[toddz69]

I'm a #4.

Todd Z.